Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting - Page 4

Þorkell · 12-22-2008, 06:45 PM

How I'd do it.

Languages: Elven, Dwarven etc. (how many races are in DF anyway). If old mysterious languages are needed there's Old Elven, Old Dwarven etc. and perhaps the dragon language.

Hidden Lore specialties? Give me a good reason why your character should have some.

What more is needed?

Prime Evil · 12-22-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Þorkell

What more is needed?

To me, the term Dungeon Fantasy resonates with old-school fantasy settings of the late 1970s.

I would love to see a default setting that is attuned to the sensibilities of that era.

If you look at some of the early RPG settings, it is amazing how terse they are - entire realms would get no more than a paragraph or two of information.

These early campaign settings attempt to be evocative without limiting the creativity of the individual GM. They tend to draw heavily on classic fantasy archetypes to achieve this aim.

Good examples include the World of Greyhawk from TSR, the Wilderlands of High Fantasy from Judges Guild, the Frontiers of Alusia from SPI's excellent but ill-fated DragonQuest RPG, David Hargrave's Arduin setting, etc.

Curiously, most of these settings draw a large portion of their inspiration from the sword & sorcery fiction rather than the high fantasy of Tolkien and his successors - they were more in tune with the sensibilities of Robert E. Howard, Fritz Leiber, Michael Moorcock, HP Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, and their ilk.

This is hardly surprising, as there was a revival of interest in this style of fantasy around the time that D&D was in development (inspired at least in part by Ballantine's Adult Fantasy imprint).

If SJGames ever publishes an original GURPS setting that embraces this style of old-school sword & sorcery gaming, I will be very happy indeed.

DouglasCole · 12-22-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

No. Bare-bones and specific are opposites of each other.

Not at all. I'm surprised that you of all people don't see this. Calling for a limiting list of languages, particular cultural backstory, which you did in your first post, makes it specific. Not a lot of detail, which is fine, since settings need room for the GM to customize to taste (even Banestorm, which is pretty darn specific, has lots of room for GMs to play, as it should).

Dinofreak2000 · 12-22-2008, 09:01 PM

i'd like to see the world of Cidri come out, but less banestorm-y...
(geek points for who ever know where Cidri comes from)

i have such fond memories of that place... the scifi Securtiy Station and Thorsz's guards (especially those death tests they used to weed out the weaker guards).

memories...

robkelk · 12-22-2008, 09:15 PM

Folks, this is DF we're talking about. What more do you really need than this?

The Basic Bare-Bones Non-Specific Dungeon Fantasy Setting

Location #1: The Town
When you are in The Town, you can visit The Tavern, The Shop, The Smithy, and The Home Of The Powerful Guy Who Hands Out Quests.

Location #2: The Hole In The Ground
Also known as "the dungeon", this is where the first adventure takes place.

Location #3: The Other Hole In The Ground
Also known as "the second dungeon", this is where the second adventure takes place.

Location #4: The Other Other Hole In The Ground
Also known as "the third dungeon", this is where the third adventure takes place.

(etc, etc, ad nauseum)

Gavynn · 12-22-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

And how will an inexperienced GM cope with that?

Badly!

Nah. There are tons of places to draw from, including, as I pointed out Wikipedia if you are looking for Europe with different names.

PK · 12-22-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

No. Bare-bones and specific are opposites of each other.

I realize that as a European, you may not have American-style English (what most of the board speaks) as your first language, so let me just correct you here. "Bare bones" and "specific" are opposites in no way, shape, or form.

Your use of the article "a" is indicative of the request for a single, specific setting. If you wanted many such settings to be available, the proper phrasing would be, "DF needs a selection of settings."

Hope this doesn't come across as patronizing. I'm trying to be genuinely helpful here. There are a lot of little rules for English that can sometimes prevent concepts from coming across properly.

b-dog · 12-23-2008, 12:34 AM

All I can say is that there seems to be a lot of interest in having some DF settings. So I will just say that many people who are interested in something tend to also purchase a product they are interested in. If GURPS wants to sell it's products so maybe it would be a good idea to produce the products people are intetrested in.

The first four DFs and DF Allies has sold very well mostly because people are interested in this type of product.

Nymdok · 12-23-2008, 01:28 AM

A GURPS:DF By Example adventure may not be a bad idea.

Somethign Like Tower of Octavius with an adventure built in and for DF.

As noted above, A town, a couple of Holes with monsters and treasure in them and a basic beastiary/encounter table to go with it.

Although converting other sources to gurps isnt hard in itself, I can see why a new GM might want something more like a turn key solution for his first attempts at reffing the game.

It should Include:
Near Town Map: Major Lanmarks Include

Town
Adventure Area 1
Adventure Area 2

Town Map:Major landmarks include

Location and Interior Map of Mayor/Duke/King (Quest Giver's) house/Mansion/Castle.
Location and Interior Map of Armory/Outfitters.
Location and Interior map of Tavern/Inn where the charachters will likely sleep.
Location and Interior Maps of the Guards Barracks.
Location and Interior Maps of a Temple/Mageria/Yerberia for Healing

Maps for the Adventure Areas.

Printable Sheets with the Stats for the Monsters in the Encounter Areas and Stats for Major NPCs(King, Captain of the Guard, Head Clerk at Outfitters etc).

Encounter Tables for Each of the Adventure Areas. For begining players and GMs 'I walk into a hole kill creatures and make their possesions my own' is plenty to handle, but you could throw a rudimentry plot in there as well.

The town map and data is infinitely reusable and could become a Base oF Ops for the carachters for many adventures as could either one of the adventure areas once the monsters are relocated to the afterlife.

This would also help the new GM see what kind of preparation is required to make a game run smoothly, and he could then begin generating his own by expanding the map of the town and its surroundings to encompass a country or continent. Throw in a few competing races and cities and before you know it, you've got a running world.

There may be alot of this stuff on e23 right now and I just dont see it. Although Caravan To Ein Aris is a good adventure, the meatier parts of it involves a level of inrtigue than most DFers arent really looking for. Nail Down 12-20 pages of PDF that contain a foothold into Dungeon Fantasy that is ready to play right out of the box.

It may be that because GURPS GMs love to microtweak thier worlds to death there hasn't been a market for this kind of 'starter module.' As we continue to pick up players from other systems, I think showing them a well written example of an adventure might make the transition for them easier.

For the Record, I love extending this idea to GURPS:(Insert Genre Here) By Example.

Nymdok

b-dog · 12-23-2008, 02:06 AM

I also think that one thing that is useful is to have examples using the rules because GURPS power levels and other games power levels are different. GURPS has many more abilities too so that it sort of changes other dungeons. In DF, characters can dig their way through dungeons and break down doors which sort of defeat the original dungeon of an earlier system. Also, GURPS is more realistic so that changes the original dungeon too.

Most important though is the fact that more people who buy RPGs are interested in the story more than anything. No matter how good the rules system, the most important thing IMO is an engaging story. Many RPGs have bad rules but they have cool stories and despite the bad rules they sell very well. So I think many people surely want rules for this and that but I feel subconsciously they also want an engaging story to go along with the rules.

12-22-2008, 06:45 PM	#31
Þorkell Icelandic - Approach With Caution Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Reykjavík, Iceland	Re: Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting How I'd do it. Languages: Elven, Dwarven etc. (how many races are in DF anyway). If old mysterious languages are needed there's Old Elven, Old Dwarven etc. and perhaps the dragon language. Hidden Lore specialties? Give me a good reason why your character should have some. What more is needed? __________________ Þorkell Sigvaldason Viking kittens \| My photos \| More of my photos

12-22-2008, 09:01 PM	#34
Dinofreak2000 Join Date: Feb 2005	Re: Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting i'd like to see the world of Cidri come out, but less banestorm-y... (geek points for who ever know where Cidri comes from) i have such fond memories of that place... the scifi Securtiy Station and Thorsz's guards (especially those death tests they used to weed out the weaker guards). memories...

12-22-2008, 09:15 PM	#35
robkelk Untitled Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: between keyboard and chair	Re: Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting Folks, this is DF we're talking about. What more do you really need than this? *The Basic Bare-Bones Non-Specific Dungeon Fantasy* Setting** Location #1: The Town When you are in The Town, you can visit The Tavern, The Shop, The Smithy, and The Home Of The Powerful Guy Who Hands Out Quests. Location #2: The Hole In The Ground Also known as "the dungeon", this is where the first adventure takes place. Location #3: The Other Hole In The Ground Also known as "the second dungeon", this is where the second adventure takes place. Location #4: The Other* Other Hole In The Ground* Also known as "the third dungeon", this is where the third adventure takes place. (etc, etc, ad nauseum) __________________ Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly.

12-23-2008, 12:34 AM	#38
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting All I can say is that there seems to be a lot of interest in having some DF settings. So I will just say that many people who are interested in something tend to also purchase a product they are interested in. If GURPS wants to sell it's products so maybe it would be a good idea to produce the products people are intetrested in. The first four DFs and DF Allies has sold very well mostly because people are interested in this type of product.

12-23-2008, 01:28 AM	#39
Nymdok Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Houston	Re: Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting A GURPS:DF By Example adventure may not be a bad idea. Somethign Like Tower of Octavius with an adventure built in and for DF. As noted above, A town, a couple of Holes with monsters and treasure in them and a basic beastiary/encounter table to go with it. Although converting other sources to gurps isnt hard in itself, I can see why a new GM might want something more like a turn key solution for his first attempts at reffing the game. It should Include: Near Town Map: Major Lanmarks Include Town Adventure Area 1 Adventure Area 2 Town Map:Major landmarks include Location and Interior Map of Mayor/Duke/King (Quest Giver's) house/Mansion/Castle. Location and Interior Map of Armory/Outfitters. Location and Interior map of Tavern/Inn where the charachters will likely sleep. Location and Interior Maps of the Guards Barracks. Location and Interior Maps of a Temple/Mageria/Yerberia for Healing Maps for the Adventure Areas. Printable Sheets with the Stats for the Monsters in the Encounter Areas and Stats for Major NPCs(King, Captain of the Guard, Head Clerk at Outfitters etc). Encounter Tables for Each of the Adventure Areas. For begining players and GMs 'I walk into a hole kill creatures and make their possesions my own' is plenty to handle, but you could throw a rudimentry plot in there as well. The town map and data is infinitely reusable and could become a Base oF Ops for the carachters for many adventures as could either one of the adventure areas once the monsters are relocated to the afterlife. This would also help the new GM see what kind of preparation is required to make a game run smoothly, and he could then begin generating his own by expanding the map of the town and its surroundings to encompass a country or continent. Throw in a few competing races and cities and before you know it, you've got a running world. There may be alot of this stuff on e23 right now and I just dont see it. Although Caravan To Ein Aris is a good adventure, the meatier parts of it involves a level of inrtigue than most DFers arent really looking for. Nail Down 12-20 pages of PDF that contain a foothold into Dungeon Fantasy that is ready to play right out of the box. It may be that because GURPS GMs love to microtweak thier worlds to death there hasn't been a market for this kind of 'starter module.' As we continue to pick up players from other systems, I think showing them a well written example of an adventure might make the transition for them easier. For the Record, I love extending this idea to GURPS:(Insert Genre Here) By Example. Nymdok

12-23-2008, 02:06 AM	#40
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: Dungeon Fantasy needs a bare-bones setting I also think that one thing that is useful is to have examples using the rules because GURPS power levels and other games power levels are different. GURPS has many more abilities too so that it sort of changes other dungeons. In DF, characters can dig their way through dungeons and break down doors which sort of defeat the original dungeon of an earlier system. Also, GURPS is more realistic so that changes the original dungeon too. Most important though is the fact that more people who buy RPGs are interested in the story more than anything. No matter how good the rules system, the most important thing IMO is an engaging story. Many RPGs have bad rules but they have cool stories and despite the bad rules they sell very well. So I think many people surely want rules for this and that but I feel subconsciously they also want an engaging story to go along with the rules.