Maximum Duration Limitation on Alternate Form or Morph, abusive?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

And with alternate attacks you can generally only attack once a turn so only use one attack. So attacks should not get alternate attacks?

With attacks there's negative incentive to purchase more than one - each attack ability beyond the first becomes less useful to have as an option. If you can already throw fireballs and create a fire aura the ability to also shoot flame jets and create flame walls is less useful as an option. There are actually meta-game reasons to incentivize purchasing multiple attacks by making it cheaper to purchase more than one attack ability.

OTOH, having more than one Alternate Forms doesn't make the other forms somehow less useful[1] - if you can turn into a trout and a squirrel there are instances when being a small climbing rodent is useful and instances when being able to swim underwater upstream[2] is useful. They don't each become less useful as an option because you already have the other.

[1]There can be some exceptions to this - the ability to turn into an Eagle, a Falcon, and a Parrot is less useful than being able to turn into a Shark, a Bat, and a Wolf. Personally I'd be willing to give a point break in the former case, but not the later.

[2]to spawn, of course :-)

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

I wouldn't have a problem with Morph and AF being AAs of each other. However, keep in mind that if you have Cosmetic Morph and AF (Wolf) you can shapeshift into your Wolf form then use Cosmetic Morph to look like any Wolf, Dog, or other similar Quadruped. If they are AAs of each other you wouldn't be able to do that - AF allows you to turn into one specific alternate form, which looks exactly the same every time you change into it.

Interesting.

But what should be an AA of what?


Hypothetically, the Morph costs 65 CPs including Limitations and Enhancements.

The most expensive AF could be a 100 CP custom-made template, so it costs 90, plus a base AF cost of 21 CPs (including Limitations and Enhancements). The three other AFs also cost 21 CPs each.

Would the 4/5 CP cost discount then apply to Morph, or to the four AFs? Or only to the most expensive AF (which strikes me as weird).

The Morph costs 65 CPs, and the most expensive AF costs 111 CPs.


I'd say that having the Morph be the AA is the simplest solution, and it may also be the most logical solution, but I'm not 100% sure...

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

[1]There can be some exceptions to this - the ability to turn into an Eagle, a Falcon, and a Parrot is less useful than being able to turn into a Shark, a Bat, and a Wolf. Personally I'd be willing to give a point break in the former case, but not the later.

With the multiple-bird-shapes guy, why not do is as Morph with Limitations? That could end up being cheaper, or more versatile, but as far as I can see is is unlikely to end up as both.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

But what should be an AA of what?

The AAs are always the least expensive of the several abilities. If you have a 100 point, a 50 point, and a 25 point ability that are AAs of each other the final cost is 100 + (50/5) + (25/5) = 115. It doesn't matter how you jigger the different abilities, you always pay full point cost for the most expensive one plus 1/5 the cost of all the others.

In the case of Morph and AF, I'd say total the cost of all the AFs, including the cost of the Alternate Racial Templates, and compare it to the final cost of Morph, including the Morph pool. Whichever is cheaper gets the x1/5 point cost. Don't treat each AF separately, because as we discussed earlier you cannot treat them separately to try to claim one as a AA against the other. All AFs are effectively one large advantage.

Example: You have two AFs, a 60 point Bear and a 25 point Eagle. Final cost is (0.9*60)+15+15=84 points. You have generic Morph for 100 points. The AFs are the AAs, so the cost for them is actually 84/5, or 17 points, plus the 100 points for Morph.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Example: You have two AFs, a 60 point Bear and a 25 point Eagle. Final cost is (0.9*60)+15+15=84 points. You have generic Morph for 100 points. The AFs are the AAs, so the cost for them is actually 84/5, or 17 points, plus the 100 points for Morph.

Cool.

If I get into a GURPS camapgin wher my shapechanger character is appropriate we'll see if it flies with the GM or not. Isn't a huge deal either way, though. Morph as AA will save me a dozen CPs or so. I'm rather more concerned about the long term, about how likely the GM is to allow the CPs spent on the AFs to be "folded into" a more-powerful Morph. (If I even decide to take the character that route.)