Gladitorial Combat (Can Anythiing Compare to This?)

[Ironbeer]

I'm in an arena-type GURPS game and from what I've seen, a particular character type is basically completely unbeatable: the Quarterstaff wielder. Every time someone has made one in the Arena, it's usually almost impossible to beat them, let me show you the generic build. You get 85 character points to spend, you can take -10 in disadvantages, -5 in perks, and that's it. You can gain no further points using any method. Characters start with $200, you can never start with more than this using advantages, perks, or any other method. You can't start with any skill or technique over 18. No ranged weapons (except normal throwing weapons like knives, axes, spears etc) of any kind or magic allowed. No nets. Anything in the basic books and the martial arts books allowed. Cinematic stuff allowed only if you purchase Trained by a Master.

ST 10 (11 for Striking)
DX 11
IQ 10
HT 10

Advantages

Striking +1, 5pts
Extraordinary Luck, 30pts
Enhanced Parry (Staff), 5pts

Disadvantages

Whatever for -10pts

Quirks

Whatever for -5pts

Perks

Grip Mastery (Staff), 1pt
Weapon Bond (Staff), 1pt
Special Exercises (Striking +1), 1pt
Style Familiarity (Quarterstaff), 1pt

Skills

Staff 18, 28pt
Whatever for 8pts, say...Combination Staff Feint, Swing at Foot

Equipment

Fine Quarter Staff, $30

Is there almost no way around a guy like this? His defenses are absolutely insane given the points allowed. 9(base)+3(base)+1(retreat)+1(defensive grip)+1(enhanced parry)+2(staff bonus)=17.

His single staff skill raises everything he'll ever need, including offense and defense. The staff is hard to disarm (it's a two-handed weapon), hard to break (it's fine and has a decent weight of 4lbs), is cheap, has range, has a swing and a thrust attack, does great damage...it's like Gods weapon. On top of this, the staff fighter requires so few points to be effective that extraordinary luck is easily purchased, so if you actually manage to hit him because he fails a defensive roll he can easily say "lets reroll that" or if he wants to just defeat you right away he can just say "use luck to reroll my feint skill, take the best". It gets worse too, by raising his defense (which will happen because it's a staff and staff is the only skill he'll ever need) he increases his offense (riposte). On top of all of this, he's excellent against any type of opponent he could ever face. Sword and shield, spear, martial artists, whatever...is there anything that is better than this? Or is the only thing that can possibly compare another Quarterstaff wielder?

[talonthehand]

You're forgetting one very important thing: deceptive attacks. Combined with multiple attacks per turn (whether it's extra attack, rapid strike, or what have you), it'll quickly whittle down his defense.

[Edit] Also, be limiting the funds to $200, you're really crippling a lot of builds. Looking quickly through Character's equipment list, I don't see a single sword that can be bought that cheaply, so with your price cap on, it's unsurprising that a fine quarterstaff would dominate.

[Kazander]

You're also artificially limiting it to builds which expressly cannot use the things you know Quarterstaff Wielder is weakest against: missiles, spells, nets.

He's a one-trick pony, really. Some guy with a flail, large shield & shield-wall training perk has a decent chance of bringing him down to size though. Or Dual Sai, off hand weapon training, and maxed out disarm technique. This guy is dead once disarmed. No backup weapons or skills.

[Voren]

Originally Posted by Ironbeer

Is there almost no way around a guy like this? His defenses are absolutely insane given the points allowed. 9(base)+3(base)+1(retreat)+1(defensive grip)+1(enhanced parry)+2(staff bonus)=17.

Don't forget Defensive Attack, just to carry this to the limit...

It gets worse too, by raising his defense (which will happen because it's a staff and staff is the only skill he'll ever need) he increases his offense (riposte). On top of all of this, he's excellent against any type of opponent he could ever face. Sword and shield, spear, martial artists, whatever...is there anything that is better than this? Or is the only thing that can possibly compare another Quarterstaff wielder?

It could very well be the case that the rules of the arena in question make a quarterstaff wielder the most effective sort of fighter. In that case--expect EVERYONE to be a staff fighter. A little boring, but a no-brainer. On the other hand, this staff fighter really is a one-trick pony. Their staff can (with some difficulty) be broken, dropped, entangled, grabbed, etc. There's always the outside chance--even with Luck--of critical hits and misses.

The staff fighter will run into trouble if trying to fight in a confined space (a tunnel), while mounted, or while climbing. The staff fighter might also have a hard time with an opponent who gets into close combat with them. Ranged attacks. Multiple foes. And so on. Whatever. A few points in unarmed skills, knife, fast draw, and knife throwing add some versatility and back up tricks.

[Ironbeer]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

.
[Edit] Also, be limiting the funds to $200, you're really crippling a lot of builds. Looking quickly through Character's equipment list, I don't see a single sword that can be bought that cheaply, so with your price cap on, it's unsurprising that a fine quarterstaff would dominate.

The sad reality is, go ahead and increase the starting cash to $1000. You'll be hard pressed to find anything that can beat the Quarterstaff. Sadly, Deceptive attack stands no chance at beating this guy. If you reduce your skill by a massive -8 to give the staff wielder a -4, he's still defending at a 13, and now you're down by 8. Considering no starting skill can be above an 18, you've got to get really lucky. And remember, because of how cheap it is to do a Quarterstaff, he's got insane skill, insane defense, AND Extraordinary Luck.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Kazander

You're also artificially limiting it to builds which expressly cannot use the things you know Quarterstaff Wielder is weakest against: missiles, spells, nets.

Likewise, the extremely low allowance for equipment pretty much rules out all but the most inferior blades and armor. Putting this guy up against someone with a similar build but a few points spent on extra cash which is used to buy some armor (given the user's low ST, even a few points of DR make that staff much less effective) and a half-way decent sword, or just upping the amount of base cash, would change the balance considerably.

[Anthony]

You might try him against the guy with Judo-18. Can't use a staff in close combat, and judo parries work vs staff attacks.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Ironbeer

The sad reality is, go ahead and increase the starting cash to $1000. You'll be hard pressed to find anything that can beat the Quarterstaff.

Nope, sword and armor combination probably wins. Assume a similar build, but one guy has a few points less in subsidiary skills and a few put into cash. He buys enough armor to get, say, DR 3 or 4. Half the time quarterstaff guy hits him, he won't take any damage. Sword guy can afford to sacrifice his defenses in order to improve his attacks. Sure, he'll hit less often than quarterstaff guy, but his hits will be much more effective. One good shot to the arm or leg, for example, and quarterstaff guy is screwed.

[Sam Baughn]

For the scenario you describe, a high skill quarterstaff guy is pretty god-damned effective, but he might be beatable by someone with a decent basic speed, good ST and moderate grappling and knife fighting skills rushing into close combat, grappling and shanking him repeatedly. It kind of relies on the knife guy either getting to rush before the staff guy gets to set up a wait manouver or being tough enough to just shrug off a hit from the staff though.

An alternative approach might be to make a similar build with a fine long-spear and simply try to keep the guy one yard further away. With Extraordinary Luck on both sides, it could be a very long fight though.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by Ironbeer

I'm in an arena-type GURPS game and from what I've seen, a particular character type is basically completely unbeatable: the Quarterstaff wielder. Every time someone has made one in the Arena, it's usually almost impossible to beat them, let me show you the generic build. You get 85 character points to spend, you can take -10 in disadvantages, -5 in perks, and that's it. You can gain no further points using any method. Characters start with $200, you can never start with more than this using advantages, perks, or any other method. You can't start with any skill or technique over 18. No ranged weapons (except normal throwing weapons like knives, axes, spears etc) of any kind or magic allowed. No nets. Anything in the basic books and the martial arts books allowed. Cinematic stuff allowed only if you purchase Trained by a Master.

ST 10 (11 for Striking)
DX 11
IQ 10
HT 10

Advantages

Striking +1, 5pts
Extraordinary Luck, 30pts
Enhanced Parry (Staff), 5pts

Disadvantages

Whatever for -10pts

Quirks

Whatever for -5pts

Perks

Grip Mastery (Staff), 1pt
Weapon Bond (Staff), 1pt
Special Exercises (Striking +1), 1pt
Style Familiarity (Quarterstaff), 1pt

Skills

Staff 18, 28pt
Whatever for 8pts, say...Combination Staff Feint, Swing at Foot

Equipment

Fine Quarter Staff, $30

Is there almost no way around a guy like this? His defenses are absolutely insane given the points allowed. 9(base)+3(base)+1(retreat)+1(defensive grip)+1(enhanced parry)+2(staff bonus)=17.

His single staff skill raises everything he'll ever need, including offense and defense. The staff is hard to disarm (it's a two-handed weapon), hard to break (it's fine and has a decent weight of 4lbs), is cheap, has range, has a swing and a thrust attack, does great damage...it's like Gods weapon. On top of this, the staff fighter requires so few points to be effective that extraordinary luck is easily purchased, so if you actually manage to hit him because he fails a defensive roll he can easily say "lets reroll that" or if he wants to just defeat you right away he can just say "use luck to reroll my feint skill, take the best". It gets worse too, by raising his defense (which will happen because it's a staff and staff is the only skill he'll ever need) he increases his offense (riposte). On top of all of this, he's excellent against any type of opponent he could ever face. Sword and shield, spear, martial artists, whatever...is there anything that is better than this? Or is the only thing that can possibly compare another Quarterstaff wielder?

Break the staff. Axes do wonders here.