So... Heavy Gear

[GoblynByte]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

No, you fool! What have you done! Not everyone knows that, and the core books probably won't include that! Life on Terra Nova, 3rd Edition didn't mention that, they actually spoke of the involved as if the event hadn't happened yet! (Trying to be vague, in case GoblynByte edits their post)

I'm not feeling all that guilty about it. The 4th edition is supposed to advance the timeline well beyond the 3rd, which advanced the timeline well beyond the event of which I spoke. It's not exactly a cliffhanger any more and certainly not a spoiler. It's ancient history.

[GoblynByte]

Originally Posted by Jbuckmaster

Before yet another person gets completely false information from a forum post: Heavy Gear has had exactly ONE scale change when it switched to DP9 in-house production. The figs first produced by RAFM were 1/87. When they changed to in-house miniatures, it was switched to 1/144 to actually let you field the figs on hexmaps. Every single miniature produced since has been 1/144 scale. You can use the older DP9 figs in blitz and the new Blitz figs with hexmaps.

I don't know where that rumour got started, but I'm rather tired of it, especially since I mix all generations of the figs by DP9 and I'm the Line developer.
-John

Well, excuse the crap out of me, dude.

I apologize for bringing up a delicate subject, but I can only go on what I was told at GenCon two years ago (when Blitz was in the verge of release) about the other scale change. The guy at the DP9 booth - a guy who was helping design the Blitz line - told me first hand that Blitz was going to be a smaller scale than the previous two scales (not counting 'fleet' scale which I will admit I confused as another scale change rather than additional scale...sue me). Maybe that's where your 'rumor' got started.

So don't come at me. Get on DP9 for starting the rumor. You can hardly blame me for making the mistake of actually listening to the guys who were designing the game.

[GoblynByte]

Originally Posted by MechMerc

The cost really isnt too different from other games (one from UK for example) over the whole. But then not everyone can afford those games either.
Merc

Keep in mind that my basis for comparison on these books is mainly from the mid-90's when book costs weren't up as high as they are now. The core book was a softcover, black and white interior book, and cost more than $30. Normal now, not back in 1997.

[Jbuckmaster]

Originally Posted by GoblynByte

Well, excuse the crap out of me, dude.

I apologize for bringing up a delicate subject, but I can only go on what I was told at GenCon two years ago (when Blitz was in the verge of release) about the other scale change. The guy at the DP9 booth - a guy who was helping design the Blitz line - told me first hand that Blitz was going to be a smaller scale than the previous two scales (not counting 'fleet' scale which I will admit I confused as another scale change rather than additional scale...sue me). Maybe that's where your 'rumor' got started.

So don't come at me. Get on DP9 for starting the rumor. You can hardly blame me for making the mistake of actually listening to the guys who were designing the game.

Sorry about that, I didn't want to "come at you" as it were, I just want these things stopped asap, because if one person hears it, then others hear it and it goes on. And then people accusing me of covering up scale changes or other weird things (like I'm a sock puppet for martians, or DP9 is an evil tool of GW) when I point out we haven't changed scales. Nobody seems to take 5 seconds to check the website or bother asking to double check :(

From my perspective at that time, the Sculptor was doing 1/144, The Boss wanted 1/144 and the designer (me) never wanted a scale change. It was part of the goal behind the rules to let older players with large collections actually play with them. In fact, at GenCon, when Blitz was about ready, we had our first Blitz figs nearing completion (maybe even at the convention).

Which says to me that whoever told you this was either unclear about something regarding the change in sculpting (maybe something about using N-scale terrain or the figs looking closer to the art now), or maybe we had a case of an overenthusiastic fan saying stuff. I'm not sure, but armed with your info (and any more you can give), I will find out.

Thanks very much for actually replying and telling me what was up, and I apologize again if I offended you.

-John

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by GoblynByte

I'm not feeling all that guilty about it. The 4th edition is supposed to advance the timeline well beyond the 3rd, which advanced the timeline well beyond the event of which I spoke. It's not exactly a cliffhanger any more and certainly not a spoiler. It's ancient history.

So the new addition will continue with a "metaplot"? That's too bad, really. I've always been interested in this game, but metaplot's a deal breaker, IMO.

[Jbuckmaster]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

So the new addition will continue with a "metaplot"? That's too bad, really. I've always been interested in this game, but metaplot's a deal breaker, IMO.

Ahem (standard disclaimer, stuff is early yet, so no guarantees):
If things go as we intend, you will be able to ignore the metaplot if you want.

We do want to finish the story in Blitz, and I expect the RPG will follow, but the core point of the RPG is to let GMs and players play a game they want, which means we need to have a common starting point and a common starting point needs to be easily explainable and functional. KNowing about the exploits of galaxyfaring Spec-ops teams won't help a lowly set of police officers in the most crime-riddled city in the North. Knowing about intelligent Dolphins on Atlantis won't help a group of Badlands Caravan Guards. So all of that needs to be presented as additional info you can get later, IF you want.

-John

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Jbuckmaster

We do want to finish the story in Blitz, and I expect the RPG will follow, but the core point of the RPG is to let GMs and players play a game they want, which means we need to have a common starting point and a common starting point needs to be easily explainable and functional. KNowing about the exploits of galaxyfaring Spec-ops teams won't help a lowly set of police officers in the most crime-riddled city in the North. Knowing about intelligent Dolphins on Atlantis won't help a group of Badlands Caravan Guards. So all of that needs to be presented as additional info you can get later, IF you want.

Supplements aren't the same as metaplot, though. Will those supplements assume that your campaign had the same major events since the starting point?

[Jbuckmaster]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Supplements aren't the same as metaplot, though. Will those supplements assume that your campaign had the same major events since the starting point?

This is where it gets tricky (again, standard disclaimer, no guarantees, etc). I want all the TN info to be set at a specific default year so we don't have issues like with the leaguebooks where some leaguebooks were written after certain events, leaving you with a giant blank and a useless book if you wanted to run stuff there before year X. So, the stuff on TN, probably won't require you to know the metaplot or care. If it does, it should explicitly note what info you need to use it, along with some options for using it with different setups.

If/when we get to colonies, well, most of them don't enter the picture until after a certain date, so that date becomes the default year for that colony, and all info outside of story stuff is set in that year.

Ideally, this should minimize confusion, maximize usefulness and let people actually PLAY and have fun.

-John

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Jbuckmaster

I want all the TN info to be set at a specific default year so we don't have issues like with the leaguebooks where some leaguebooks were written after certain events, leaving you with a giant blank and a useless book if you wanted to run stuff there before year X.

Exactly. The Core books shouldn't have the metaplot expanded any further than they need to. These are the players in the world, this is how they think. Okay, you there, go out and do something interesting.

I would like to get a Humanist Alliance book released before [FNORD]. They've always been my favorite league.

Knowing that [FNORD] gets [FNORDED] on [FNORD] for [FNORD] reasons are only relevant if you're following the canon storyline. One of my games picked up after the [FNORD] [FNORD] of [FNORD], when the Black Talons were created. Now, those of us who've followed the story line would know what my [FNORDS] are about, but those of you who haven't will still have some surprises.

And, if you want to ignore the metaplot, there is no reason you have to follow it. Years ago, we discarded the canon world for BattleTech. We had other characters following canon, and characters in our own world.

But, sir_pudding, you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you don't look at the metaplot. Even from an objective/story standpoint, it's a thing of beauty.

I think I'm running a risk of the MIBs comming for me; I've used more than my allotment of "fnords" at one time.

[GoblynByte]

Originally Posted by Jbuckmaster

Sorry about that, I didn't want to "come at you" as it were, I just want these things stopped asap, because if one person hears it, then others hear it and it goes on. And then people accusing me of covering up scale changes or other weird things (like I'm a sock puppet for martians, or DP9 is an evil tool of GW) when I point out we haven't changed scales. Nobody seems to take 5 seconds to check the website or bother asking to double check :(

From my perspective at that time, the Sculptor was doing 1/144, The Boss wanted 1/144 and the designer (me) never wanted a scale change. It was part of the goal behind the rules to let older players with large collections actually play with them. In fact, at GenCon, when Blitz was about ready, we had our first Blitz figs nearing completion (maybe even at the convention).

Which says to me that whoever told you this was either unclear about something regarding the change in sculpting (maybe something about using N-scale terrain or the figs looking closer to the art now), or maybe we had a case of an overenthusiastic fan saying stuff. I'm not sure, but armed with your info (and any more you can give), I will find out.

Thanks very much for actually replying and telling me what was up, and I apologize again if I offended you.

-John

No apology needed, and I apologize for coming back at you the way I did. It was before my morning cofee and I think it just hit me the wrong way.

I may very well have misunderstood the fella at GenCon. To be fair he had a very thick French accent and he and I were discussing the fact that I enjoyed the way Blitz sounded because it made the smaller scale of the machines seem more appropriate. Scale in that context referred to the 'real' scale of the machines as opposed to the larger scale of, say, Battletech and other Giant Robot games. I said that I felt the older tactical rules made it too much like Battletech when heavy gears waged war on a much more personal level.

Now, I thought he had said something to the effect of the miniatures coming down in scale to match that feel (I can't remember his exact words), but now that I learn that there was no change in scale I'm figuring there must have been a miscommunication (possibly due to a slight language barrier and ambient convention noise).

Once I heard that at GenCon I actually had less interest in following up on the game since I wasn't interested in buying new miniatures. Granted I had only bought two or three boxes prior to that, but at $35 a pop I wasn't ready to go again. Oh, there have been times since then that I've thought about buying the book, I just never pulled the trigger on it. I actually appreciate you clearing that up for me 'cause it means that my older minis won't look goofy if combined with newer minis.