GURPS Heavy Gear?

[MadWombat]

Le sigh....

I saw the DI and went calloo callay! An exciting property from a great company to put right next to my GURPS volumes in the RPG section, then the dark treachery of e23 reared its ugly head.... (said facetiously as a purchaser of things electronic)

I understand why the move, but as a FLGS that is determined to be more than a d20/D&D shack, it gets frustrating when things migrate electronic. A lot of my customers still prefer print or at least want both without having to print it. Just need to find some way to get the FLGS into the e-loop in such a way that it is adding value to the process.

To keep things on track..Will SJG just be doing text or will they be handling the minis as well? Or will DP9 still crank out the gear and the minis game?

edited for lack of intelligence

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by MIB 1473

In that respect, I worry that RevBob is right that putting the product online limits its potential audience.

An interesting perspective, but one that I'm not sure is supported by market realities. The web reaches everywhere -- including countries without FLGS and soldiers overseas -- and while people you know might not like to use it for shopping, the fact is that putting something online is a highly efficient way to reach the world. Most people in geek hobbies now rely on blogs, news aggregators, social networking sites, and online retailers for hobby info; roleplayers are pretty clearly among the early adopters of this stuff. My own view is that you can't fairly compare a few specialty shops, mostly in lower-rent areas of large population centers, to the web. FLGS who are succeeding are mostly FGS, minus the L -- that is, they've gone online; e.g., Le Valet D'Coeur, which is a mere block from where I live but which I've visited more online than in person for the past 10 years.

[Jbuckmaster]

Online is about the only way I can get any interesting games I want. It has been since 1997. That's right 1997. Between LGSes being overwhelmed with options or clueless and Distributors not carrying some companies or simply misleading store owners, even good game stores have trouble getting some products. Meanwhile, I can visit Sentry box, Le valet or the company website and get it faster and with less hassle. Especially after moving to the Hat, where even talking about anything outside of D&D gets you funny looks.

-John

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kromm

that is, they've gone online; e.g., Le Valet D'Coeur, which is a mere block from where I live but which I've visited more online than in person for the past 10 years.

Looks like a cool place to browse... I think I might have walked by it (before working hours) when I visited some 15 years ago.

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by Paul

* Our current plan calls for a print version of the core game, to make those who only frequent physical FLGS aware, and PDF for the remainder of the line. However, given printing technology, you're going to see hardcopy sooner or later.

A Good Thing, IMO.

Originally Posted by Paul

* Kromm said: "I would say that electronic products are more a response to poor brick-and-mortar coverage than a cause of it."

Yup.

Unfortunately, that response can lend itself to a self-reinforcing spiral effect. If Player X wants to buy SJG stuff at his FLGS, but he can only buy certain things there whereas he can buy all of it at W23/e23, before long he's going to wonder why he doesn't just buy all of his SJG stuff at W23/e23 as a "one-stop shop" - and the FLGS loses out. Similarly, one of the FLGS shops in my area takes a rather dim view of e23, under the impression that SJG's trying to hoard the sales of those products for themselves. Even the announcement of retail POD distribution was met with "they're giving us their castoffs." Sure, you and I know that's not the intent - but that's his perception, and he's not open to changing his mind.

As I said, I don't intend to criticize - I just think the whole situation's unfortunate all the way around.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by RevBob

Unfortunately, that response can lend itself to a self-reinforcing spiral effect.

If we felt, in our opinion as professionals who rely on the market for our livelyhood, that we weren't already too far down that spiral effect to reverse it, we'd find another response.

Edit: I'm not saying the retail tier is in a spiral. I'm saying RPGs don't seem to work with that model the same way they used to, and we're too far down the new path to turn back. New ways to make RPGs work need to be found.

[Neil S]

My FLGS in high school was primarily a comic book store. Went in a couple weeks ago to see after years of absence, to see if I could pick up the GURPS Basic Set there. The floor space that was used for games has apparently been replaced with Japanese comics. Of the other bookstores in town: one has a little D&D and no other RPGs, the other doesn't even have the D&D.

Even the next city over, went to a bookstore there, near the state university. It had a bunch of D&D and some stuff from White Wolf, but nothing from SJG.

So if I stay in my city of 200k, I can barely start in D&D without going online. If I go a city over (population over 500k), SJG RPGs are still not an option. If SJG products weren't available online, I'd be lost to them as a customer no matter how much I wanted to try GURPS.

I really doubt where I live is the only such place either, so I can't see how SJG is going to be worse off tapping every market they can. As far as the spiral stuff: it seems to me that with respect to that, SJG is in a prisoner's dilemma with other publishers. There's no way they can just hold out and hope everyone else does. No way.

[Mark Skarr]

My FLGS used to dedicate an entire rack to DP9 products. The majority was Heavy Gear but they had Jovian Chronicles, Gear Kreig and Tribe 8 as well.

One day, it was gone! When it vanished I was informed that I was, pretty much, the only person who ever looked at it. My FLGS was happy to order the books for me as they came out knowing that I'd be by to get them.

When I asked a number of the people playing Heavy Gear about where they got their books most of them said "on-line." They could get a better deal on-line than they could from the store.

I have a standing order at my FLGS for any GURPS Fourth Edition books that come out.

Personally, I like both forms. I like my dead-tree editions and I like my captive-electron editions. The PDFs make research a breeze when I'm working on ideas at my computer, and the hard-back versions make good clubs for getting players' attention. ;-) Just kidding. I use my Hero book for that!

[David Johansen]

I think we're partly victims of the success of d20 and partly victims of a failure of vision in the industry itself. You can complain that GURPS isn't selling all you like, but when the basic buy-in is $150 (yes, yes it is, most gamers are looking for a fantasy setting and a complete core set) it isn't surprising that the game sits on the shelves. Also, the fourth edition core books would kill a newbie dead with fright.

In the modern market there's only two systems that sell games D&D and Warhammer (and Warhammer Ancients sales are only earth shaking in terms of the historical miniatures market's sales figures)

As I've said in the past, GURPS desperately needs a user friendly fantasy starter set. An SF starter set might work if it says HALO or Starcraft on it, but historically that type of rpg / video game crossover doesn't seem to do so well.

What does seem to sell games these days is a brilliant setting that can't be ignored. (or boobs) Heavy Gear might fall into that category (not boobs, the other one). It certainly had the type of unified artistic vision that draws people in. But I'm guessing that it missed its hour. Timing is everything with getting a runaway success.

Roleplaying desperately needs a runaway success these days. Something that makes people open their eyes and grab the book off the shelf because it's too cool to ignore. We're really jaded these days, heroes and dragons and wizards just aren't enough to do it anymore. It'll probably take boobs.

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

Roleplaying desperately needs a runaway success these days. Something that makes people open their eyes and grab the book off the shelf because it's too cool to ignore. We're really jaded these days, heroes and dragons and wizards just aren't enough to do it anymore. It'll probably take boobs.

So, what - GURPS Macho Women With Guns?