old theme - What exactly is default?

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Randover

The situation is normal guy (or mommy) with two fighting "monsters" at back seat during first snow (or other unusual situation) + would extra effort count?

Don't forget, the average driving situation requires no rolls at all, and that Driving also defaults to IQ. A lot of normal modern folks are going to be using the IQ default instead of the DX default as soon as they're old enough to have some sort of education, experience, and general non-dumbassery.

That said, for a person who is dead-normal across the board, I think operating a vehicle at Default of 5 is realistic. That gives them a 2:1 chance of failure (IE: Doing something a cop would pull you over for, or a "no harm, no foul" fender-bender) in any sort of stressful situation that requires a roll but still grants the +4 TDM, and about a 10% chance of pulling off a miracle in a real crisis without the TDM.

[younglorax]

Originally Posted by Randover

Hmm, this will propably give me even more trouble. But thanks.

Just to follow the lead, would someone care to stat these situations? Like rutine task - familiarity penalty with (trouble some) avarage?

The situation is normal guy (or mommy) with two fighting "monsters" at back seat during first snow (or other unusual situation) + would extra effort count?

Is there a list of TDMs anywhere (in a book somewhere or on the forums)?

That'd be a right handy thing to have.

[Bruno]

The way I look at Driving and skill rolls:

The driver, alone in the car or with quiet passengers, no radio playing, no cellphone, focusing on driving, normal driving conditions (Dry road, good lighting, nobody actively trying to kill you) -- no skill check required.

The driver, with a distraction of some sort such as rowdy kids in the back seat, or talking on the cell phone while driving, but normal driving conditions -- skill check at +4 for routine operation.

The driver, with no distractions but less than ideal conditions - it's raining, it's dark out, the road is in bad shape, whatever -- make a skill check starting at +3 (for light rain or dust, dark road but otherwise good conditions) and possibly going down to -4 (torrential rain or blizzard conditions, in the dark, on a bad road). Note that Taking Extra Time (by driving slowly) is good for bonuses to help offset these penalties!

Distractions in bad conditions add further penalties onto the above - talking on a hands-free cellphone might be good for -1, juggling a handheld phone and a hot coffee is a -4 at best.

Failure on a Driving roll indicates something like missing your exit on the freeway, taking a wrong turn, a flat tire, stuck in a snowbank, or if failed by 5 or more a minor bumper-denter accident for less than $500 in damages or a point of damage from dumping hot coffee all over yourself. Mostly failed rolls result in delays and frayed nerves.
A critical failure may indicate getting a traffic ticket for driving through an intersection, or the possibility of a more severe accident - roll again to prevent disaster and turn it into just $500 or less in damages.


My Suggestion: if you're ever caught in a blizzard, at night, with little Jack and little Molly and the Tickle-Me-Elmo, yell at the kids to shut the heck up, throw Elmo out the window, and turn off your cellphone.


EDIT: Some cars may be good for a +1 or more Quality bonus on Driving checks for bad conditions. The Cadilacs with the heads-up night vision displays would remove Darkness as a concern, the cars with bumper-mounted radar, driver-wakeup systems, and drifting alarms would help combat driver fatigue (possibly giving the driver a second skill check if he fails the first one) and all the computers and such would be worth a +1 or more on the second, "avert utter disaster" roll.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Pesterfield

I'd agree with C.

If you've driven before then you can take situational modifiers like the +4 for routine tasks.

If you've just seen people driving on TV then you should just get plain default, since almost everything is trial and error.

I think Driving at default, with a mild unfamiliarity penalty (of the sort that goes away after a few hours) makes sense for someone like me, who has no license and only tried driving once, for about an hour on a parking lot at the age of 12 (supervised, of course).

[Extrarius]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I think Driving at default, with a mild unfamiliarity penalty (of the sort that goes away after a few hours) makes sense for someone like me, who has no license and only tried driving once, for about an hour on a parking lot at the age of 12 (supervised, of course).

By RAW, it takes 50 hours to eliminate an unfamiliarity penalty.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

By RAW, it takes 50 hours to eliminate an unfamiliarity penalty.

I demand a personal discount, then, since I've actually tried driving (while supervised and instructed), once, more than half a life ago. I figure my unfamiliarity penalty should go away after 1/10 that time, which is 5 hours. But for someone who has never driven a car and needs to figure out everything on an ad hoc basis, 50 hours might be realistic.

Also, are the RAW unfamiliarity rules the same for all activities? ISTR something about weapon unfamiliarity penalties going away after only a few hours, and that was what I was thinking about, when I wrote my previous post.

[Gizensha]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

By RAW, it takes 50 hours to eliminate an unfamiliarity penalty.

...Where does it say that? Because on 169 of Basic it says 8.

[Extrarius]

Originally Posted by Gizensha

...Where does it say that? Because on 169 of Basic it says 8.

IDHMBWM, so maybe I just completely misremembered it. I'll look when I can.

[Gizensha]

C - Anyone with some sort of familiarity with cars, although that would be 'most people living at TL8 in the real world', I think.

For the overall discussion of the driving skill specifically, the way I see it:

Most people will have no more than about 2 points in driving, and having any points at all is going to need to have been driving for about 5 years. (If you want to do the working on the job calculations, that 2 hours of commuting every weekday 50 weeks a year... Is probably not where you're going to be spending your maximum of 8 (counting for 2) hours for learning on the job a day, so that means it's pretty much the driving you do when you're not working that will be counting towards it. A maximum of ~50 hours worth a year for an average person, maybe? Plus ~20 from the learning to drive based on how many one hour driving lessons it seems to take people to pass their test)

Most people who have been driving for less than 5 or so years will always be driving at default, and for most stuff they're doing would have the +4 for routine tasks after they become routine. (In addition to the +4 TDM... So that's +8 in modifiers)

People who haven't had driving lessons... Well, we're working from default, don't have the +4 for routine, and have a variety of penalties on top of that. The best we could hope on that commute is overall modifiers of +0 (-4 for the penalties that will always apply, as far as I can see takes out the TDM)

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Randover

Lately I have got into issue with my players. Here is an example.

Default car riding

Nearly every country has driving licence and to get it you need to pass training and exams. But who gets default for driving?

A/ Only someone who actualy did the training

B/ Everyone from our tech level

In B is valid how do you rate those who did the training but don't drive? Is it the same? (If yes, in what case?)

Neither, but closer to B. Anyone with cultural exposure to automobiles.