Cheat Question

[Vaddius]

Ok, I've read the other posts on cheating here and I think I understand it's purpose now (mostly). I just want to see if I have it straight, and to get a little clarification.

The cheat cards remove race/class/sex/level/hand restrictions on ITEMS so that you can carry and use items that you couldn't normally because of those restrictions, but does NOT change HOW the item would normally act if you were able to use it without a cheat.

Cheated items take NO hands.

You can only cheat on things with a gold value or "no value" on the card. (Thus, they are "items".) So you can't cheat on things like powers, etc...

You don't have to say "how" you are cheating, because it doesn't matter. You're just removing the above restrictions for that item anyway.

Ok, now here's where I need clarifications...

You can use a cheat on a henchman/sidekick so that you can have additional ones, and that if they are resticted to a particular class/race you can still have them in play. Since you don't declare how you are cheating, those same restrictions are simply removed for as long as you have that henchman/sidekick. Cheat doesn't stop someone from killing them with another card.

So, you're cheating to have that henchman/sidekick in play, but the cheat doesn't extend to any items you have them carry for you, right? Like you can't suddenly use an item they have just because you're cheating the henchman/sidekick, right?

Second part, can you cheat in the same manner to have multiple mounts?

[Vaddius]

... I forgot to add to my question...

If you are cheating with both hands, does that mean once you have both items placed on the cheat they are then treated as a single item if something causes you to lose an item?

(BTW: If you die, cheat doesn't stop you from losing the item does it?)

If you do lose only one of the two items you are cheating, can you then cheat an additional item to replace the lost one?

(I ask because if you only had one item cheated and lost it the cheat card would be gone.)

[Mental_Myopia]

The Cheat on the Hireling does not extend to any other item.

So far all Steeds has a gold value, so they're all Items so far. You can play Cheat on a Steed to be able to use an additional Steed.

Cheat with Both Hands does not link the two cheated Items together. If one of those Items is Cursed, stolen, or sold; the other cheated Item is unaffected.

If you die, you lose all of your Items, so Cheat does not protect your Items from death.

If you lose one of the two Items cheated with Cheat with Both Hands, you may add a second cheated Item to Cheat with Both Hands. That was covered in this thread:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=31733

[Bazz]

yeah, in neither of the linked threads do i see an official ruling that says you can reuse a slot on Cheat With Both Hands. In one thread you have a couple MiBs saying thats the way they play it, in another you have people saying that you can *not* reuse the slot. nowhere does Erik post a definitive ruling.

my personal interpretation is that you can't, because the card says that you may add a second item later, rather than saying that if it only has one item, then another item can be added. to me, you are only able to add a second item once, after that, bad luck.

[Xodiac]

Btw, can you use Cheat cards to have extra ranks of Power?

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by Bazz

yeah, in neither of the linked threads do i see an official ruling that says you can reuse a slot on Cheat With Both Hands. In one thread you have a couple MiBs saying thats the way they play it, in another you have people saying that you can *not* reuse the slot. nowhere does Erik post a definitive ruling.

Erik does actually confirm that he implicitly agreed with popping a new item into the CWBH if one of the two is lost.

Originally Posted by Mental_Myopia

Actually, I thought that Munchkin Man had implied that a second item could be added to Cheat with Both Hands at a later time, after one of the cheated items became lost. That's why he didn't post a reply saying otherwise in this thread:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=31733

Erik replies with:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

I did, in fact, imply that...

[Progmode]

Originally Posted by Xodiac

Btw, can you use Cheat cards to have extra ranks of Power?

Well, the rules don't say you can. That's a pretty clear indication that you cannot. ;-)

[Vaddius]

Originally Posted by Bazz

yeah, in neither of the linked threads do i see an official ruling that says you can reuse a slot on Cheat With Both Hands. In one thread you have a couple MiBs saying thats the way they play it, in another you have people saying that you can *not* reuse the slot. nowhere does Erik post a definitive ruling.

my personal interpretation is that you can't, because the card says that you may add a second item later, rather than saying that if it only has one item, then another item can be added. to me, you are only able to add a second item once, after that, bad luck.

Yeah, that was my initial thought too, but I figured I'd try to head off future arguments if it happened to come up while I was playing.

[Vaddius]

Originally Posted by Progmode

Well, the rules don't say you can. That's a pretty clear indication that you cannot. ;-)

There are a lot of things not explicitly spelled out in the rules. If it doesn't explicitly say we can't, then maybe we can...

That's why we ask these questions.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by Vaddius

There are a lot of things not explicitly spelled out in the rules. If it doesn't explicitly say we can't, then maybe we can...

That's why we ask these questions.

It's time for the PSA again. . .

The rules say what you can do. Do not count on them to say what you can't do unless something you can do is counteracted by some other condition or action. In other words, if the rules do not explicitly say you can not do something is not a valid argument to do something the rules do not tell you that you can do.