Absurdly high skill levels

[Zed]

Thanks for all the feedback. :D

Comments:
At some point you do throw realism out the window. That's ok to do in some game styles (with or without using GURPS).

Seems like 2 issues:

Mechanically, in many skill areas, its pointless to be above a certain skill level as the possibilty of encountering a situation that would give you anything short of maximum possibility of success is nil.

Conceptually, I still wonder what would an absurd skill score represent?


Silly example:
A super awesome sniper should be around skill 35 but a super awesome surfer should be around skill 25. What if I want to play the best surfer in the world who happens to be a his city's best police sniper? The skill levels would not describe his abilities very well relative to each other (and I like stats to decribe as well as rate abilities). Take it one step further in cinematics: what if said dude is the a demi-god (ala Hercules) of combat surfing? How do you make the character sheet paint a picture that this guy is a god-like surfer with god-like sniper as a second best ability?

From the responses it seems to me that skills in GURPS have to be kept in a certain range. Access effects desired should be gotten through advantages instead?

~Z

[vicky_molokh]

Two words: Regular Spells.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Zed

Silly example:
A super awesome sniper should be around skill 35 but a super awesome surfer should be around skill 25. What if I want to play the best surfer in the world who happens to be a his city's best police sniper? The skill levels would not describe his abilities very well relative to each other (and I like stats to decribe as well as rate abilities). Take it one step further in cinematics: what if said dude is the a demi-god (ala Hercules) of combat surfing? How do you make the character sheet paint a picture that this guy is a god-like surfer with god-like sniper as a second best ability?

Not true. The best sniper would still only need 25 skill. he might gain higher penalties, but a sniper also gets higher bonuses, Acc, aim bonusses and the additional rules from High-Tech all takes care of this.

My point was that in combat you are more often running into opposed rolls, and so high high a skill is "enough" depends on how high a skill your opponent has.

[Tai]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

If, for example, I want to make a skull shot (-7) at someone 1,000 yards away from me (-14) in poor light (-5), then even if I've got a really good rifle and stop to aim, etc. (about +8, depending on the rifle), I would need a skill of 28- simply to have a 50% chance of hitting.

Actually, let's assume you have a halfway decent sniper build. Let's say you're using a Fine Izhmash 7.62 rifle with the best scope you can buy (6+3Acc), you Aim for two additional seconds beyond what's necessary (+2 Acc), and you're Braced (+1), aiming in that situation (skull shot, 1000 yards away, in poor light, for -7-14-5 total -26). A skill of 24 would be needed to make the shot 50% of the time. If it were important, then further factors may come into play - a sniper with TA (Rifle/Skull) at max (effective +4), taking extra time to perfect the shot (+1 after 6 seconds on a successful roll, and another +1 every doubling after, to the full +5 available), and you only need a 15, for 50% chance.

For every insane quantity of negative modifiers you pile onto a problem, it's likely there's just as many positive modifiers you can add if you approach it right. And if a situation is reasonable common, then many people will buy it as a technique - even if the technique only halves penalties, that goes a long way to making even an 'impossible' task doable.

Of course, if they're practicing 'impossible' tasks to the point where they become routine, then it's not impossible anymore, is it?

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Tai

For every insane quantity of negative modifiers you pile onto a problem, it's likely there's just as many positive modifiers you can add if you approach it right. And if a situation is reasonable common, then many people will buy it as a technique - even if the technique only halves penalties, that goes a long way to making even an 'impossible' task doable.

Of course, if they're practicing 'impossible' tasks to the point where they become routine, then it's not impossible anymore, is it?

Indeed. And for the sniper example you would also have a low-light scope and you would use the "Precision aiming" rules on page 84 of High-Tech (allowing for up to +5 more, depending on the lower of scope or Acc bonus).

[Tai]

Actually I mentioned the precision aiming rules in High-Tech - that's the effective 'taking extra time' bonus. Though, I was unaware it was limited to your scope or rifle Acc bonus... Thanks for pointing that out.

[TheDS]

These higher-leveled skills couldn't POSSIBLY be useless or absurd, or they wouldn't be priced so exceptionally high at 4 CPs per skill point. That skill-100 costs around 350 CPs, which as we all know, represents 350 points' worth of unfairness vs someone who doesn't have it. Isn't YOUR first action when building a 500 point character to figure out which skill you want at 100? Well why not?

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Some silly examples:

History (20th century Military)-30 with no Strategy skill
Politics-30 with no Current Affairs skill
Sex Appeal-30 with no Erotic Art skill
Soldier-30 with no Guns or Melee weapon skill

These might all default to each other. I know the third example does as I was browsing through the book last night and this stuck out.

[macphersonrants]

I played a character in a highly cinematic game that was heavily cribbed from the Miyamato Musashi character in GURPS Japan. Based on that experience, I can say for certain that a melee combat skill of 30 was not an useless waste of points. It allowed me to do things like combining a martial arts technique and a high negative modifier aimed attack while dealing with bad conditions and still keep the maximum chance for a critical. That said I wouldn't personally go much higher than that even in the most cinematic games. There are better places to spend those points.

[sjmdw45]

Originally Posted by Tai

Actually, let's assume you have a halfway decent sniper build. Let's say you're using a Fine Izhmash 7.62 rifle with the best scope you can buy (6+3Acc), you Aim for two additional seconds beyond what's necessary (+2 Acc), and you're Braced (+1), aiming in that situation (skull shot, 1000 yards away, in poor light, for -7-14-5 total -26). A skill of 24 would be needed to make the shot 50% of the time. If it were important, then further factors may come into play - a sniper with TA (Rifle/Skull) at max (effective +4), taking extra time to perfect the shot (+1 after 6 seconds on a successful roll, and another +1 every doubling after, to the full +5 available), and you only need a 15, for 50% chance.

Rifle accuracy is odd anyway. My understanding is that, in real life, it's almost impossible to hit someone from 3 miles away, but in GURPS that is only an extra -4 relative to the 1000-yard shot. I.e. if you can hit someone 50% of the time at 1000 yards, you can hit them 10% of the time at 3 miles. As I understand it, that's very unlikely in real life because more factors come into play at extreme range: the bullet tumbles differently, you have to factor in gravity, you have to account for different wind for all the points between you and your target. (That is, in real life, difficulty is not log-linear with distance as it is in GURPS. It's log-quadratic or something.)

If you really wanted to simulate this correctly, you'd probably have Accuracy vary as a complex formula depending on bullet weight, distance to target, and environment. Failing that, set the "max" range for a rifle lower than its "real" max range and just say that it maxes out at 1000 yards for man-sized targets, and exceeding that requires special rules and circumstances.

-Max

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by TheDS

These might all default to each other. I know the third example does as I was browsing through the book last night and this stuck out.

Come again? Erotic Art defaults to Acrobatics, not Sex Appeal.