[Dungeon Fantasy] Esoteric Medicine and First Aid?

[StormCrow42]

I'm afraid I've found a bit of minor errata in DF1. Since First Aid defaults directly to Esoteric Medicine, at the levels listed for both the Cleric (where it's a required skill) and the Druid (for which it's optional), First Aid should be credited as improved from the default 14 base of Esoteric Medicine and be credited as IQ+1 [1**]-15 instead of IQ [1]-14. Or of course not included at all, although the first couple of levels of improvement over the Per-based Esoteric Medicine are cheaper than buying EM up further directly.

[Bruno]

The way I went with it, after reading what DF uses Esoteric Medicine for, was saying "First aid doesn't default to Esoteric Medicine. It DOES default to physician, but players aren't doctors so no PC actually cares."

Esoteric Medicine is for realigning your chi, balancing your four natural humours to align with the elements, or treating maladies of the spirit, not for paltry little things like cuts or broken bones. ;)

This may or may not have been the intention. Either way it could do with a clarification or correction or something.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The way I went with it, after reading what DF uses Esoteric Medicine for, was saying "First aid doesn't default to Esoteric Medicine. It DOES default to physician, but players aren't doctors so no PC actually cares."

Esoteric Medicine is for realigning your chi, balancing your four natural humours to align with the elements, or treating maladies of the spirit, not for paltry little things like cuts or broken bones. ;)

This may or may not have been the intention. Either way it could do with a clarification or correction or something.

The pattern was repeated for the Holy Warrior template, as well. That makes me think that a distinction, like you suggest, may have been intended. If you want to keep it completely compatible with Basic, putting the extra point back into First Aid seems very reasonable.

[Kromm]

I did indeed deliberately separate First Aid from Esoteric Medicine, but I sure wasn't using up a paragraph to explain two skills! The short version is that the first needs bandages ($10, 1 lb.) or a first-aid kit ($50, 2 lbs.), which are cheap, light, and available anywhere, while the second needs a healer's kit ($200, 10 lbs.), which is costly, heavy, and esoteric. However, Esoteric Medicine can also do everything Physician can do, and cure weird conditions besides. A cleric ought to have both.

[StormCrow42]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I did indeed deliberately separate First Aid from Esoteric Medicine, but I sure wasn't using up a paragraph to explain two skills! The short version is that the first needs bandages ($10, 1 lb.) or a first-aid kit ($50, 2 lbs.), which are cheap, light, and available anywhere, while the second needs a healer's kit ($200, 10 lbs.), which is costly, heavy, and esoteric. However, Esoteric Medicine can also do everything Physician can do, and cure weird conditions besides. A cleric ought to have both.

Does that mean that First Aid shouldn't default to Esoteric Medicine? Otherwise you can at least use your first aid default with your bandages and first aid kit (and run into the issue again of buying first aid up from default for the Cleric and Druid, the Holy Warrior's first aid skill is better than his esoteric medicine default would be).

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by StormCrow42

Does that mean that First Aid shouldn't default to Esoteric Medicine? Otherwise you can at least use your first aid default with your bandages and first aid kit (and run into the issue again of buying first aid up from default for the Cleric and Druid, the Holy Warrior's first aid skill is better than his esoteric medicine default would be).

Yeah, this is an important point for my campaign which is starting Real Soon Now when DF3 arrives (and also impacts on the data file I'm making for GCA incidentally).

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by StormCrow42

Does that mean that First Aid shouldn't default to Esoteric Medicine?

At least so far as Dungeon Fantasy is concerned, that seems to be the case.

...the Holy Warrior's first aid skill is better than his esoteric medicine default would be).

Oops... yeah, I overlooked the amount of points he was putting into EM :*|

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Kromm

(...) However, Esoteric Medicine can also do everything Physician can do, and cure weird conditions besides. A cleric ought to have both.

So, basically First Aid is useful for a Cleric only when he is lacking of the healer's kit. I guess...

Originally Posted by Kromm

I did indeed deliberately separate First Aid from Esoteric Medicine, but I sure wasn't using up a paragraph to explain two skills!

Sorry, I don't understand this very well. What was the reason for separating both skills in that way, so Dungeon Fantasy First Aid skill lacks of one of its defaults (Esoteric Medicine-4)?

And lacking of any clear statement about this separation, at first glance this point does have the likeness of an errata.

[StormCrow42]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

Sorry, I don't understand this very well. What was the reason for separating both skills so First Aid hasn't its default of Esoteric Medicine-4?

The quibble here is that RAW, first aid defaults to esoteric medicine directly, not at -4. Both the Cleric and Druid templates are buying Esoteric Medicine at 14, based off Per, and then spending a point to get First Aid at 14 as well based off IQ. My early point is that either you use the fact that you've already got first aid at 14 by default and don't spend the point, or that the one point you do spend gets you a score of 15 in first aid instead (which is a perfectly usable answer, 3 points then get it at 16 [or esoteric medicine+2], cheaper than spending 4-8 more points on esoteric medicine just to make it easier to patch up the party after combat).

[Kromm]

DF ignores lots of things; it and even recommends ignoring specialties in some cases. It definitely just glosses over interskill defaults. As far as that series is concerned, EM and FA are different skills with no default between them. Sooner or later, I'm going to write rules that make them fairly different . . .