DF:A Without Divine Magic

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Kromm

It won't be discussed much because it's fairly trivial, really.

I understand this point (philosophical difference between Power Investiture and Magery) isn't relevant to the rules or the crunchy aspect of the forthcoming book, but anyway it can be an interesting fluff adition for GMs considering different viewpoints about Magic, its source(s) and scope (maybe non phenomenologic, metaphysical scope?) in a campaign-setting. You know, these gung-ho guys ;-)

Originally Posted by Kromm

a purely objective look at the ineffable will invariably conclude that it's all conjecture anyway and what matters is what you see manifested, not what might exist on a metaphysical plane you can't plumb.

Indeed. But, in a given campaign-setting with supernatural abilities, PCs and other characters could indeed have the needed supernatural capabilities to plumb and probing such metaphysical plane ("God's plane" for monotheistic religious cultures) not for making abstruse conjectures but for knowing.

That could be very useful in campaigns featuring cosmic mysteries and enigmas, needing some mystic or initiatic ability for solving them.

Because knowing the metaphysical plane is the "specialty" of some mystics and initiates, thanks to their "organ of mystic, universal and metaphysical knowledge": the Holy Ghost/The Spirit of God in man (Cristianism) or the planonic Nous, the beyond-the brain-(non thinking or reasoning but intuitive)-Intellect.

In other words, the Nous received as (or awakened by) Power Investiture through initiatic rituals, being the only thing in man able to provide "a purely objective look at the ineffable" (the ancient meaning of gnosis) resulting in enlightenment or sanctity (i.e., The Buddha; BTW the western Nous is equivalent to the eastern hinduist and buddhist Bodhi).

Some degree of "historical reality checking" about (mostly ancient) beliefs and mysteric-religious assumptions can be applied in these subjects too (not only to martial arts, technology, psysics, and weapon models), so we have a culturally familiar example between many others extracted from 1 Corinthians 2: 10, 11, 12, 13:

"But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (10)
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? ... (11)
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world [man's natural reasoning capability], but the spirit which is of God [Nous, Intellect]; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (12) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (13)"

Traditionally the platonic Nous, Pneuma, Spirit of God or Intellect could be working "in the man" but only after the ritual reception of such gift or "power".

I see this related to Power Investiture because traditionally, the capability of knowing the depths of God by the human being was regarded as a supernatural gift, received from "God himself" or from some enlightened Guru, Prophet or Saint through mysteric initiation ("Now we have received. . .the spirit wich is of God"). BTW, the posession of that supernatural gift is what diferentiates mystics from rationalistic philosophers relying only in their own natural thinking. That supernatural mystic gift, a sort of biblical "Charisma", should be more related with Power Investiture than with Clerical Investment (this latter mostly a social thing).

Again,

Originally Posted by Kromm

It won't be discussed much because it's fairly trivial, really.

Well, I wouldn't interested in a long discussion about this. I woud be happy only with a brief and sumary treatment, about a paragraph. A mentioning of the idea, at least.

My intention here is to show how I think this can to add depth to some campaigns.

Cheers

EDIT: The partial definition of Power Investiture as "a measure of your bond with your deity" (Characters, p. 77) matches literally and explicitly with the traditional and mysteric meaning of Nous - Intellect.

On the other hand, Power Investiture is an empowerment allowing one to cast "clerical" spells.

Well, there still are room for both faces of Power Investiture (gnostic and phenomenologic, inner and outward): Power Investiture theoretically should allow metaphysical, non-phenomenologic nor empiric mystic knowledge, and allows too perform some phenomenological miracles or clerical spells.

EDIT2: Some Fantasy Wizards, being typically in synth with supernatural knowledge, makes me to think about Magery as having a role here, too, along with Power Investiture, Blessed and Holy Might advantages. (http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=58)