Proposed adition to the Boxing skill, from a real boxer

[IrishRover]

I have been looking over 4th Edition GURPS, and see a problem that also existed in Third Edition GURPS, regarding the boxing skill. Overall, it works nicely, but it needs some sort of addition to cover kickboxing. (I haven't played GURPS in a long time, but got some 4th edition materials recently.

Kickboxing shouldn't, in my opinion, be covered by Karate. It isn't as comprehensive--or as difficult--as the "advanced unarmed striking" that GURPS subsumes under Karate. And, as a skilled (well, reasonably so, anyways...I'm no pro, but have been boxing for 7 1/2 years now) boxer, I'm picking up kickboxing techniques without adding a whole new martial art, and picking them up pretty quickly.

I have roughed out a solution, and any feedback would be much appreciated.

Kickboxing Training
1 point
Prerequisite: Boxing
You have been trained in kickboxing techniques. You gain access to the kicking technique, starting with a default of boxing -2, just as Karate.

Your Parry is based on your kicking skill, or boxing, whichever is LOWER. (Learning to kick well is fairly straitforward, but learning to defend against them is harder..this I was reminded of last week sparring...OUCH!)


Note: If you have Karate, you do not need this perk.

I do not have GURPS Martial Arts, and currently have more pressing demands on my gaming budget. Does this seem like a reasonable adaptation of generic kickboxing? I put it at one point because I know that I picked up the basics pretty quickly.

[Ciaran]

Something very much like what you suggest is already written into GURPS Martial Arts.

Personally, I might let someone "convert" the points they had in Boxing into Karate after a reasonable period of training, but there are other rules mechanical solutions that have specifically been written up to address this. It would be slightly more expensive than you propose below, but it's eminently doable in the RAW.

[IrishRover]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Something very much like what you suggest is already written into GURPS Martial Arts.

Personally, I might let someone "convert" the points they had in Boxing into Karate after a reasonable period of training, but there are other rules mechanical solutions that have specifically been written up to address this. It would be slightly more expensive than you propose below, but it's eminently doable in the RAW.

Is it possible with the Basic Set? Martial Arts has to wait until after I can get Hi-Tech, Ultra-tech, and Magic, at the very least

[Ciaran]

It's not in the Basic Set, but what you propose is very, very close to what's already in GURPS: Martial Arts.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by IrishRover

Is it possible with the Basic Set? Martial Arts has to wait until after I can get Hi-Tech, Ultra-tech, and Magic, at the very least

Wow, here I am having High Tech on pre-order and hearing all this good stuff about Martial Arts and wanting to get it...I've got it made.

[IrishRover]

Originally Posted by Ciaran

It's not in the Basic Set, but what you propose is very, very close to what's already in GURPS: Martial Arts.

I guess I must have made a sucessful role in both Hobby: Roleplaying and Boxing.

[Dangerious P. Cats]

The other option, which would duplicate what IrishRover has proposed and be doable with basic set is introduce Brawling to handle kicking, and have boxing for upper body blows. This would cost the same as what is being proposed with the same game effect.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by IrishRover

Kickboxing shouldn't, in my opinion, be covered by Karate. It isn't as comprehensive--or as difficult--as the "advanced unarmed striking" that GURPS subsumes under Karate.

Actually, it does fit under Karate. It's just that we consider the kind of kicks and punches done in kickboxing - as epitomized by arts like Muay Thai - as Karate. That's as "advanced" as you need to get. You don't need to be doing spear hand strikes and jump kicks, just striking efficiently with both the hands and feet (and elbows and knees, and sometimes head, too!).

Originally Posted by IrishRover

I have roughed out a solution, and any feedback would be much appreciated.

Yeah, that's workable for BASIC SET. In GURPS Martial Arts you'd just take Skill Adaptation (Kicking defaults to Boxing) and buy off the Low-Line Defense Technique to get rid of those pesky penalties to parry kicks. Or buy Karate, either way. Either will set you back a bit more than 1 point, but points are "value in game" more than "time to learn" and getting some of the benefits of a sepeate DX/Hard skill with your DX/Average skill will require a bit more than one point.

That build, by the way, is a good way to seperate out "punchers who kick" from "all-around strikers" in a game where that will matter.

[Fnordianslip]

I'd also generally consider kickboxing the sport version of an actual fighting style. So, it's just as hard as Karate to learn how to be good in tournaments, but it just isn't that fantastic for actual buttkicking. Probably have the sport version at a lower level and spend more points on specific techniques.

[IrishRover]

Originally Posted by Fnordianslip

I'd also generally consider kickboxing the sport version of an actual fighting style. So, it's just as hard as Karate to learn how to be good in tournaments, but it just isn't that fantastic for actual buttkicking. Probably have the sport version at a lower level and spend more points on specific techniques.

I would agree...I am in it for sport, and was trying to get my favorite sports put nicely into GURPS. And the default from sport to actual fighting is sufficient to allow a really good boxer or kickboxer to kick serious butt against someone with little training...but in deep trouble against someone with training in combat applications.

(Incidently, I probably would have about 10 points in boxing and associated techniques from training, perhaps a bit more. I've been doing this for a LONG time, with formal teaching. Perhaps a few more from encounters in the ring...Dex + 2 or dex +3)