[Ultra-Tech] Errata in weapons lists?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No, I was comparing the TL9 7mm CL round with the TL9 10mm CL and TL9 10mm CLR. Those would be using the same propellant.

Oh, sorry. Thought you were comparing it to a modern day TL 8 weapon.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As to your point that TL8 small arms ACCs are probably wrong, I'm trying to say that I think basically all ACCs for modern guns are wrong and the whole 4e system for ACC is wrong-headed.

But that's an entirely seperate point, one that goes to the heart of the 4e focus in playability versus simulation. Whether or not one thinks that lowered Acc was the best way to represent low hit probability in real life firefights or not is quite indepedent from whether one thinks that the TL 9 Storm Rifle stats are inconsistent with the description of the weapon and a comparison with lower tech level weapons with similar tactical roles.

We don't want to compound any possible errors by having the system be wrong and inconsistent at the same time.

[David L Pulver]

Errors:

Machine Pistol, 10mmCLP: RoF should be 10.
Storm Rifle: Acc should be 5.
Urban Assault Weapon: shotgun barrel should be 4d damage
Underbarrel Grenade Launcher: Acc 3 (not bonus).
Splat Gun should ideally use very rapid fire rules and Mortar Boxes should also use very rapid fire rules, or whatever ends up being used for precision burst.
Sniper Railgun, Gauss Rifle pi-
Portable Railgun Acc 8
Underbarrel EMGL 4

Incidentally, the Gauss Rifle is more or less consistent with a weapon firing a 0.006 lb. APEP projectile at just over 4,200 feet per second, except it should be Acc 5 and do 6d(3) pi-.

Since the Weapon Design Rules, while functional, remain vaporware, some weapons in UT were not modified if deviated too much from Basic Set.

(On Accuracy: You lose one point from Acc if the projectile L/D ratio is under 4:1 or the caliber is below 7mm.)

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Instead the 10mm CL only masses 1.5x as much and even the 10mm CLR is only 2.2 x as much.. Both of these have to be using a mix of more projectile and less propellant than the 7mm. The usual bullet shape for the 10mm rounds might also be more stubby and less streamlined so as to allow more room for explosive filler. They might also be at velocities where you don't get optimum results from the most highly streamlined bullets.

Fred Brackin

I believe the 10mm rounds were built with a much lower Length to Diameter ratio than standard rifle rounds. This may also have applied to the LR but it certainly applied to 10mmCL carbine version. The 10mm Storm was actually an attempt to reverse engineer the pulse rifle from Aliens and the primary problem was fitting enough ammo into the magazine, which even with caseless rounds required me to reduce the length of the bullet as well. I believe it had a 3:1 or 2:1 LD ratio as a result -- i.e., they are shorter and fatter. I used advanced propellants to boost the muzzle velocity, but the fat round naturally had a significant effect on ballistics especially at Max range.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Errors:

Can we expect these to show up as official errata?

Splat Gun (should be RoF 6x5) with very rapid fire rules and Mortar Boxes should also use very rapid fire rules, or whatever ends up being used for precision burst.

So recoil should be 1/2? Or some other fraction?

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Can we expect these to show up as official errata?

So recoil should be 1/2? Or some other fraction?

I'm not sure what the nomenclature for very rapid fire is - it was one reason it wasn't included (Powers was still not firmed up at the time of writing).

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Can we expect these to show up as official errata?

So recoil should be 1/2? Or some other fraction?

Some of them, probably. The gauss rifle change maybe not - it's not really errata until the Weapon Design Rules become official, and I'm not even sure whether the book will ever be contracted.

[David L Pulver]

Incidentally, Targeting With Active Sensors should ideally say "to a maximum of +9" to avoid insane results when coupling this with high-Acc mounted weapons.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Incidentally, Targeting With Active Sensors should ideally say "to a maximum of +9" to avoid insane results when coupling this with high-Acc mounted weapons.

Then how are you going to fight at space ranges with these guns? Even with ACC 18 (or 24 for the anomalously high X-ray lasers) adding +9 doesn't get you very far.

ACC 18 (weapon) +9 (Active sensors) +3 (maximum turns of Aiming) gets you +30 or offsetting a Range of 100 miles. Also, this figure can not be further augmented by any other aids, including targeting computers.

I suggest you re-think this statement.

Fred Brackin

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Then how are you going to fight at space ranges with these guns? Even with ACC 18 (or 24 for the anomalously high X-ray lasers) adding +9 doesn't get you very far.

ACC 18 (weapon) +9 (Active sensors) +3 (maximum turns of Aiming) gets you +30 or offsetting a Range of 100 miles. Also, this figure can not be further augmented by any other aids, including targeting computers.

I suggest you re-think this statement.

Fred Brackin

I'd think that the best way to overcome such penalties in space combat is to make space combat different when it comes to accuracy and the like. Without air resistance, close gravity, or any of that other stuff to influence your fire, accuracy and ranged combat becomes a different story.

Just like, a firearm fired underwater doesn't have even partially the range it once had; in fact, it's been proven through the Mythbusters that the bigger the gun, the shorter the distance of a fired round underwater! (Whether the round was fired while the gun was inside the water, or outside)

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Underbarrel Grenade Launcher: Acc 3 (not bonus).

Which one? The 25mm is listed as having Acc 4+2 and the 40mm is listed with Acc 2.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the 25mm has its Acc reduced by one and does not have built-in optics.

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Sniper Railgun, Gauss Rifle pi-

Wait, is the 7mm Sniper Railgun pi-?

Oh yeah, it's because of the APEP rounds, isn't it?

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Portable Railgun Acc 8

Indeed. I hadn't noticed that the Acc is listed at a whopping 4!

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Incidentally, the Gauss Rifle is more or less consistent with a weapon firing a 0.006 lb. APEP projectile at just over 4,200 feet per second, except it should be Acc 5 and do 6d(3) pi-.

So a -2 to Acc and a -2 to damage for the Gauss Rifle.

How high does the caliber of a Gauss weapon need to be to justify using pi damage instead of pi-?

And what would the stats look like if Gauss weapons fired some kind of semi-armour piercing round that tumbled in flesh?