Notes on Using GURPS Ultra-Tech (4e) in TS: Chapter 1

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DryaUnda

Oh no you d'n't! We can have Complexity 7 programs being people but not able to teach them?

It's not the ability to teach people that's problematic, it's the ability to teach people while they're asleep, in their dreams. The human brain doesn't really work that way.

[DryaUnda]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The human brain doesn't really work that way.

How does it work?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DryaUnda

How does it work?

A lot isn't known about dreaming (though there is some reason to suspect it's basically a form of garbage collection), but responsivity to outside stimulus is definitely not a part of the sleep package, and teaching is outside stimulus.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by DryaUnda

This is a Complexity 5 program we're talking about here, not just Dragon Dictate with bigger tailfins. Think of it as a translator program that translates from the spoken version of a language to the written one.

I'm happy to believe that better writing technology makes writing faster - this here PC is a bit quicker than a quill pen, I think. But it'll only make it better in the sense that it's possible to revise and polish a bit more in a given period (which will be somewhat necessary anyway, because writing faster makes it tempting to jot down any old tosh as a first draft and polish it later).

Eventually, one may get expert systems software that can revise and polish the text acceptably by itself. But then, you're using the program's Writing skill, not the human author's.

Originally Posted by DryaUnda

Abuse how?

Any time the PCs have to attempt a burglary or an ambush, they'll be faffing about bouncing weird sound effects and shaky snatches of conversation off walls and ceilings, trying to distract their opponents (and sinking into bad practical jokes along the way). Trying to impersonate opposing senior officers will probably be especially popular (as will fart gags, with some groups). Of course, this shouldn't work too well, at least after a while, but things will get noisy and messy at times.

Originally Posted by DryaUnda

Oh no you d'n't! We can have Complexity 7 programs being people but not able to teach them? (That's just for quirks and Average skills.)

No problem with advanced education software. Handwaving sleep/REM time into learning time is another matter.

Originally Posted by DryaUnda

From the player's point of view, they can choose from either needing no sleep to 16 hours towards a skill point a night. Wouldn't this be in line with mutable point totals?

Mutable points totals are a red herring here - though even if that's the rule in use, it shouldn't mean "PCs have ever-accelerating points totals because they've minimaxed the learning system with the aid of some dubious new fictional technology". The problem is that idea that time spent dreaming is nothing but wasted potential learning time.

I don't know exactly why people dream; I don't think that anyone does right now. But the best evidence seems to be that it's a defragging process in which the mind sorts out its memory storage, or at least some sort of rest time. Interrupting that to jam yet more stuff into memory strikes me as a quick way to drive the subject barking mad.

[DryaUnda]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Eventually, one may get expert systems software that can revise and polish the text acceptably by itself. But then, you're using the program's Writing skill, not the human author's.

(Hm...a skill set with 8 points in Writing (Editing)...)

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Any time the PCs have to attempt a burglary or an ambush, they'll be faffing about bouncing weird sound effects and shaky snatches of conversation off walls and ceilings[.]

Looks more like simple inventiveness the GM didn't anticipate to me.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Mutable points totals are a red herring here - though even if that's the rule in use, it shouldn't mean "PCs have ever-accelerating points totals because they've minimaxed the learning system with the aid of some dubious new fictional technology".

Whoa now, "red herring"'s fightin' words in Teh Internets. Still, I was cramming in a second argument. My point was that getting an extra point every 12.5 days (an extra 29.2 points/year should that much game time elapse) doesn't seem unbalancing considering the hardware and software requirements (1K here, 3K there add up), and that characters can get other advantages will skills or cash.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

The problem is that idea that time spent dreaming is nothing but wasted potential learning time.

But the best evidence seems to be that [dreaming's] a defragging process in which the mind sorts out its memory storage, or at least some sort of rest time. Interrupting that to jam yet more stuff into memory strikes me as a quick way to drive the subject barking mad.

I stand newly informed. I'll have to look into dream research sometime. (Still, a pity about dream teaching though.)

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anthony

A lot isn't known about dreaming (though there is some reason to suspect it's basically a form of garbage collection), but responsivity to outside stimulus is definitely not a part of the sleep package, and teaching is outside stimulus.

For those without sleep disorders, you mean?
Sleepwalkers react to outside stimuli, usually illogically.
I happen to have an unusual degree of "sapience" when sleepwalking. As in I respond accurately to questions, show no awkwardness in movement, and often times others don't know that I'm asleep until the next day.

[jahn]

And do you remember what you did while sleepwalking and what people said to you? Just wondering.

[David Johnston]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I don't know exactly why people dream; I don't think that anyone does right now. But the best evidence seems to be that it's a defragging process in which the mind sorts out its memory storage, or at least some sort of rest time. Interrupting that to jam yet more stuff into memory strikes me as a quick way to drive the subject barking mad.

Which, y'know, makes a good plotline.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jahn

And do you remember what you did while sleepwalking and what people said to you? Just wondering.

No, because that would be called being awake. Though if not, then how would I know that I'm not asleep right now?
I just wanted to refine the discussion beyond a simple response to outside stimuli, and rather to intelligent comprehension AND memory of said stimuli.

[jahn]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

No, because that would be called being awake.

I'll disagree with this part, since it seems to me like you could be asleep and remember stuff (to varying degrees) that people tell you. Though perhaps that's medically impossible.