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Old 01-26-2007, 10:26 AM   #1
Dwarf99
 
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Default extra attack

How would extra attack and an unbalanced weapon interact?
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:44 AM   #2
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Default Re: extra attack

An unbalanced weapon just can't be used to parry with if you've just attacked with it, so there's no special interaction. Extra Attack does not give you any special ability to parry after an attack.

Al the Barbarian has Extra Attack and an Axe and takes an Attack maneuver. He can chop Bob the Wizard with the axe once, and then take any other attack (a kick, a head-butt, a punch, whatever) without penalty. He cannot chop Bob the wizard twice with one Attack manuever unless he also took the "Rapid Strike, +20%" enhancement from Powers (as per Basic Set, p 53.)

No matter how many times he chops at Bob the Wizard, he cannot parry with his Axe until his next turn.

By the way, if Al the Barbarian has a weapon that becomes *unready* after attacking, like a Great Axe, he can't attack with it twice in one turn even if he DOES have Rapid Strike. He attacks once, the axe becomes unready, and he needs to wait until his next turn, Ready it, and then wait until his THIRD turn to attack with it again. Extra Attack cannot be used to re-ready the Great-Axe. He can hack with the great axe and kick Bob the Wizard in the knee in one turn, however.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: extra attack

it is multistrike and i was really not wondering about parrying i was wondering about readying


for example if someone has EA3 could they swing, ready burning an attack, then swing again?
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: extra attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarf99
for example if someone has EA3 could they swing, ready burning an attack, then swing again?
As Bruno already said: No.
This has been confirmed by Kromm, in fact, I wondered about the same thing and asked him a couple of days ago.
Here's what he said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
> 1. Can an Extra Attack be used for a Ready maneuver?

No, it's called Extra ATTACK for a reason.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: extra attack

oh sry i missd that last part on bruno's reply. did he elaborate on a way to model faster ready so that you could use extra attacks with an unready weapon?
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: extra attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarf99
oh sry i missd that last part on bruno's reply. did he elaborate on a way to model faster ready so that you could use extra attacks with an unready weapon?
Kromm? No. What I quoted was everything he e-mailed to me about the Ready maneuver in conjunction with Extra Attack.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: extra attack

Well, for those interested in the rest, here it comes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolai
I have three quick questions on Extra Attack and Dual-Weapon Attack:

1. Can an Extra Attack be used for a Ready maneuver?

2. Can an Extra Attack be used on a Move and Attack?

3. Can you make a Dual-Weapon Attack on an All-Out Attack or a Move and
Attack?

Thanks a lot for your answer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
> 1. Can an Extra Attack be used for a Ready maneuver?

No, it's called Extra ATTACK for a reason.

> 2. Can an Extra Attack be used on a Move and Attack?

Sure. You can use it with any maneuver that allows an attack in the
first place. Mind you, two attacks at -4, with a cap of 9, would be
kind of a waste.

> 3. Can you make a Dual-Weapon Attack on an All-Out Attack or a Move
> and Attack?

Sure. DWA simply replaces one attack (and only one).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolai
> Sure. You can use it with any maneuver that allows an attack in the
> first place. Mind you, two attacks at -4, with a cap of 9, would be
> kind of a waste.

Both my PCs and NPCs often open combat with a Move and Attack to reach the
enemy in the first place. Since two PCs also have Extra Attack, it came up
quite frequently in my games.

> > 3. Can you make a Dual-Weapon Attack on an All-Out Attack or a Move
> > and Attack?

> Sure. DWA simply replaces one attack (and only one).

I was asking because a Rapid Strike doesn't seem to be allowed on a Move and
Attack according to the wording of Rapid Strike's description. (Peter said so,
too: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=12)
Is that correct?
If yes, why treat Rapid Strike differently than Dual-Weapon Attack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
> Both my PCs and NPCs often open combat with a Move and Attack to
> reach the enemy in the first place. Since two PCs also have Extra
> Attack, it came up quite frequently in my games.

Mine, too. I just think it looks silly. :)

> I was asking because a Rapid Strike doesn't seem to be allowed on a
> Move and Attack according to the wording of Rapid Strike's
> description.

This is correct; however, Rapid Strike isn't DWA.

> If yes, why treat Rapid Strike differently than Dual-Weapon Attack?

It's fairly simple:

Rapid Strike assumes two *successive* blows with the same weapon, and
we feel that winding up, striking, and recovering twice in a row while
also running full-out is too much action for one turn. Even if we
didn't care about that, the fact that the blows are evenly spaced
during the turn means that they would happen a distance apart at a full
run -- so we'd either need rules for striking two foes with space
between them at a run (complex) or a ruling that you can't run *and*
plot a course past two foes *and* strike twice (more-or-less what we
ruled). People who want to do that should take Altered Time Rate.

DWA assumes two *simultaneous* blows with different weapons, in a way
that involves a single windup, strike, and recovery. There are no
course-plotting or timing issues, and since it's a single "action" and
not two "actions," there are no issues of having enough time, either.
On the other hand, it's more cinematic -- as the rules say.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: extra attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarf99
oh sry i missd that last part on bruno's reply. did he elaborate on a way to model faster ready so that you could use extra attacks with an unready weapon?
My advice would be either
a) get enough ST so it is no longer a weapon that becomes unready (expensive)
or
b) buy a level of Altered Time Rate with "Accessability: Only for taking Ready maneuvers, -35%" and possibly "Accessability: Only in combination with an attack type maneuver (Attack, Move and Attack, All Out Attack), -30%" and/or "Accessability: Only to Ready an Unready weapon that became Unready because of an attack, -??%" if you want to get really specific.


There's a problem with option b), however. Technically, you'd take your Attack action, make your first attack, axe would become unready. Then you'd take your free Ready. But now you can't make your second Attack because you're already finished your attack action... You can't take your ATR maneuver simultaneously with your regular one.


So yeah. I'm thinking buy enough ST so that it doesn't become unready. Possibly with the limitations "No Hitpoint bonus, -20%" and "Only for MinST purposes, -??%" if you really need it to be cheap. But honestly, if you want to swing around a stupid heavy axe quickly, it's really hard to imagine you doing it without being also very strong.

--
NB: showing my math for those limitation values:

A guestimate on the value of "Only for Ready actions" would be -35%, based on there being 13 different types of maneuver that ATR normally allows you to take, and you're restricting it to only one (ie 1/13th or ~7% of your normal choices). According to Powers, an Accessability that makes your ability work only 7% of the time is worth -35%.

A rough guestimate on Accessability: Only in combination with an attack type maneuver (Attack, Move and Attack, All Out Attack) would say that it restricts you to using it in combination with 3 out of 13 possible maneuvers, or 23% of the time. Which according to powers is -30%.

I'm not really sure how to guess what the value of "Accessability: Only to Ready an Unready weapon that became Unready because of an attack" would be, but you're already at -65% for the other two, so you're going to run smack into the -80% barrier soon.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:41 AM   #9
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Default Re: extra attack

Note that if somebody really wanted Extra Ready in my campaign, I'd probably allow it for the same price as Extra Attack. However, it would not be the same thing . . . you'd need to take them separately.
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:04 PM   #10
Dwarf99
 
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Default Re: extra attack

that is wat i was origionally wanting to do. i just wasn't sure if it should fly

also i was wondering: would it be a +100% modifier if you could ready or attack?
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