[Fantasy] Price of Commodities

[Phantasm]

In building my own fantasy world, I came to the realization that there are commodities in the world which do not have a price listed in either the Basic Set or in Fantasy (I don't have Banestorm, so I don't know if they're listed there). Can anyone give me a rough estimate, in GURPS $, how much some of this stuff would cost?

Commodities:
1 lb wheat
1 lb barley
1 lb rye
1 lb rice
1 lb potatoes
1 lb flour
1 lb linen
1 lb cotton
1 lb iron
1 lb copper
1 lb tin
1 lb bronze
1 lb brass
1 lb steel
1 lb coal
1 lb wool
cow
goat
pig
sheep
1 acre farmland
1 cord wood

Thanks in advance.

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

In building my own fantasy world, I came to the realization that there are commodities in the world which do not have a price listed in either the Basic Set or in Fantasy (I don't have Banestorm, so I don't know if they're listed there).

(They are not.)

Can anyone give me a rough estimate, in GURPS $, how much some of this stuff would cost?

Commodities:
1 lb wheat
1 lb barley
1 lb rye
1 lb rice
1 lb potatoes
1 lb flour
1 lb linen
1 lb cotton
1 lb iron
1 lb copper
1 lb tin
1 lb bronze
1 lb brass
1 lb steel
1 lb coal
1 lb wool
cow
goat
pig
sheep
1 acre farmland
1 cord wood

Thanks in advance.

Some things can be estimated from the GURPS price lists - for example, an iron plow (TL 2) costs 220$ and weighs 120 lbs, so roughly 2$ per lbs seems reasonable (actually, less, since the workforce needed to work it into a plow must be substracted). From the wooden plow (55$, 60 lbs), we can estimate that wood will cost no more than half of this. Using the price lists that way, some prices should be easily found.

For the animals, I'd suggest taking ponies or donkeys as an example, and untrained dogs for the smaller ones (such as sheep).

Oh, and potatoes would be unavailable in a truly medieval-europe fantasy world, of course. :-)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Lets start with a rough estimate of the value of an English penny. A poor labourer in the High Middle Ages got about a penny-farthing per day, or 38 pence per month. A poor wage at TL3 is G$140 per month. That makes a High Mediæval English penny about G$3.70

Your medieval laborer would have had Sundays off. So that's (52 x 6)/12 = 26 working days a month, and 32.5 pence, going with your 1.25 pence/day. About $4.30 equals a penny.

Bill Stoddard

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

In building my own fantasy world, I came to the realization that there are commodities in the world which do not have a price listed in either the Basic Set or in Fantasy (I don't have Banestorm, so I don't know if they're listed there). Can anyone give me a rough estimate, in GURPS $, how much some of this stuff would cost?

As pointed out by Agemegos, a poor laborer earned about $140 a month.

In premodern societies, the great majority of most people's budgets goes for food—over 50% for sure, and 75-80% is not unlikely. So let's say $105 a month for the laborer.

Premodern diets are monotonous by our standards: the society has a staple grain, or a couple of them, and most of what people eat at every meal is that one grain. To a first approximation, you can treat them as eating only that grain, and calculate its price per weight, and then figure other foods are cheaper or dearer.

So let's say that our poor laborer is not supporting a family—he doesn't make enough to afford a wife. He buys food only for himself. He gets two pounds of barley a day—he's not rich enough to eat wheat. That's 62 pounds a month. $105/62 = $1.70/pound for barley. Or probably anywhere from $1.50 to $2.00, given that we're only doing a crude estimate. I might go for barley being $1.50 and wheat $2.50, or somewhere around there.

Bill Stoddard

[DanHoward]

In "Tilting at Windmills" S. E. Mortimer presented decent approximations for the cost of various grains and flour.
http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login...e.html?id=4363

In On Inns Taverns and Alehouses there are costs for drinks and accommodation. All these articles seem to be both internally consistent and consistent with Low Tech.
http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login...e.html?id=5435

This one gives a better understanding of the agricultural working year.
http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login...e.html?id=5729

Why bother reinventing the wheel . Pyramid invariably has an article that does a better job.

[DanHoward]

You'd be surprised how much leisure time the typical peasant had. Even the serfs. Read trhe Pyramid articles.

[DrTemp]

Ahm, what I wanted to say... yes, use history books. But when the campaign starts, define a canon for your campaign and keep it, whatever you may find out later.

You'd have lots of pointless discussions otherwise. ;-)

[Inviso-Chimp]

Originally Posted by DrTemp

Ahm, what I wanted to say... yes, use history books. But when the campaign starts, define a canon for your campaign and keep it, whatever you may find out later.

You'd have lots of pointless discussions otherwise. ;-)

I wholeheartedly agree.

I think that this had come up in a previous thread, but be that as it may, here's a couple of links, since that old thread isn't helping you right now:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sourc...valprices.html

http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/H/Kennet...s-1/prices.htm

If you want to work in round numbers, you can use a rough equivalent of GURPS $4 = 1d (or one British penny). GURPS $1 is about one farthing (four farthings to a penny). I went through a lot of crap trying to come up with an "equipment list" on my own. I ironed out what was acceptable for my uses and stuck with it. Trying to "fiddle" with it only gave me a headache, but that's just me. I'm not looking for true historical accuracy, just the illusion of it. :)

Also, I agree that internal consistency is key.

Blip the Inviso-Chimp

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

I have. They seem to discuss only the week-work that the serf owed his lord as rent on his land, and to leave out the work that they did on their own account. I will review Dyer's Making a Living in the Middle Ages.

I guess there's a Smithian model in there somewhere - in effect the time not spent on the desmene must come out sort of like the money you have left after you pay your mortgage or rent for the month...

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

I have. They seem to discuss only the week-work that the serf owed his lord as rent on his land, and to leave out the work that they did on their own account. I will review Dyer's Making a Living in the Middle Ages.

Actually the article doesn't distinguish between personal work and feudal obligations. It is irrelevant IMO. All that is needed is the total amount of work done over the year. It gives a calendar so that it is possible to know what a particular peasant might be doing on a given day in the year. It tells you how many holidays a peasant was likely to have in a given country. Add to this 52 days for the sabbath (some people worked but not the majority). Add also the frequent funerals and weddings and it is very very clear that the medieval peasant had far more leisure time than you imply.