Tonfa + Karate + Weapon Master (Tonfa)

Der Wanderer · 10-22-2006, 02:20 PM

OK, so in our games the Tonfa can be used with the Karate skill when reversed (for Thr+1 dmg). These seems to be fine with Kromm, see here and even gets dmg-bonus see here.

Now that was no real problem so far until I found out that Weapon Master is linked to a weapon and not a skill (see here). Does that mean now that damage the boni stack??? That would be insane!!!

HeroPenguin · 10-22-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

OK, so in our games the Tonfa can be used with the Karate skill when reversed (for Thr+1 dmg). These seems to be fine with Kromm, see here and even gets dmg-bonus see here.

Now that was no real problem so far until I found out that Weapon Master is linked to a weapon and not a skill (see here). Does that mean now that damage the boni stack??? That would be insane!!!

Watch out! Tonfa-Man is coming to town! I don't see why not. There are bigger sticks out there that do bigger beatdowns. Tonfa are just lucky this way, but then again, that's what they're built to do. Weapon Master is kinda crazy to begin with, a little more won't end the world.

Der Wanderer · 10-22-2006, 03:27 PM

Never Mind, I just realized that if the Tonfa is used with Karate it "only" deals Thrust damage, so even if the boni stack it is not more powerfull than any swung weapon (except at ST 10, but no WM will have ST 10...)

HeroPenguin · 10-22-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

Never Mind, I just realized that if the Tonfa is used with Karate it "only" deals Thrust damage, so even if the boni stack it is not more powerfull than any swung weapon (except at ST 10, but no WM will have ST 10...)

You better watch out, or the Ninja Mouse'll getcha. :X

Peter V. Dell'Orto · 10-22-2006, 09:33 PM

Damage bonuses like this generally do not stack. So you have two options, both of which fit the rules well enough:

- allow the character to claim the Karate damage bonus only when using the weapon with Karate.
- allow the character to claim the Weapon Master damage bonus only when using the weapon skill.

OR

- allow the character to claim the higher bonus in either case (Karate OR WM when thrusting, WM when swinging).

Neither of them is abusive, both are logical enough. It's a reasonable call either way. Personally I'd do the second, since it's just easier and any PC I'd have to deal with would quickly take both skills high enough to get matching bonuses making which one it comes from irrelevant.

~~smurf~~ · 10-23-2006, 10:15 AM

In think it should read:

Tonfa + Karate + Trained by a master.

The +1 thrust damage is for using karate blows

Otherwise its just Tonfa + Weapons Master and paired tonfas can be mean too.

Der Wanderer · 10-23-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurf

The +1 thrust damage is for using karate blows

Yes, but the point is/was that the Weapon Master is linked to the Weapon and not the skill...

PK · 10-23-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Wanderer

Yes, but the point is/was that the Weapon Master is linked to the Weapon and not the skill...

Right. So since one of the design philosophies in GURPS* is that damage bonuses do not stack unless specifically noted (q.v., Brawling explicitly stating that it stacks with Claws), you have a case of two different damage bonuses (one from Karate, one from WM) to choose from. I'd certainly let the player always use the larger one, if they're not equal, since he did pay for both abilities.

(* Based on the designers' comments as well as the FAQ and a few playtest comments.)

~~smurf~~ · 10-23-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Yes, but the point is/was that the Weapon Master is linked to the Weapon and not the skill...

Maybe the GM would apply logic:

The weapon is useless without skill. The weapon does nothing untill it is wielded otherwise it just lies there.

Hence I would use TBM for the stacked bonus of tonfa and karate. Because it is being used as knuckle duster and it does state under tonfa:

...This grip lets you jab for thrust+1 c.d. [in close combat]...

WM states bonuses for weapon skills.

Therefore the skill used in the tittled combo is wrong because Karate is the 'active' skill and not tonfa.

Even logically T+K+TBM would be correct and not T+K+WM.

Nikolai · 10-23-2006, 05:00 PM

Smurf, I don't understand what you are driving at. What does Trained by a Master have to do with this? (Nothing as far as I can see.)

10-22-2006, 02:20 PM	#1
Der Wanderer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Switzerland	Tonfa + Karate + Weapon Master (Tonfa) OK, so in our games the Tonfa can be used with the Karate skill when reversed (for Thr+1 dmg). These seems to be fine with Kromm, see here and even gets dmg-bonus see here. Now that was no real problem so far until I found out that Weapon Master is linked to a weapon and not a skill (see here). Does that mean now that damage the boni stack??? That would be insane!!! __________________ I'm not a Munchkin, I'm the Munchkin's Advocate Last edited by Der Wanderer; 10-22-2006 at 02:26 PM.

10-22-2006, 03:27 PM	#3
Der Wanderer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Switzerland	Re: Tonfa + Karate + Weapon Master (Tonfa) Never Mind, I just realized that if the Tonfa is used with Karate it "only" deals Thrust damage, so even if the boni stack it is not more powerfull than any swung weapon (except at ST 10, but no WM will have ST 10...) __________________ I'm not a Munchkin, I'm the Munchkin's Advocate

10-22-2006, 09:33 PM	#5
Peter V. Dell'Orto Fightin' Round the World Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New Jersey	Re: Tonfa + Karate + Weapon Master (Tonfa) Damage bonuses like this generally do not stack. So you have two options, both of which fit the rules well enough: - allow the character to claim the Karate damage bonus only when using the weapon with Karate. - allow the character to claim the Weapon Master damage bonus only when using the weapon skill. OR - allow the character to claim the higher bonus in either case (Karate OR WM when thrusting, WM when swinging). Neither of them is abusive, both are logical enough. It's a reasonable call either way. Personally I'd do the second, since it's just easier and any PC I'd have to deal with would quickly take both skills high enough to get matching bonuses making which one it comes from irrelevant. __________________ Peter V. Dell'Orto aka Toadkiller_Dog or TKD My Author Page My S&C Blog My Dungeon Fantasy Game Blog "You fall onto five death checks." - Andy Dokachev

10-23-2006, 10:15 AM	#6
~~smurf~~ Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol	Re: Tonfa + Karate + Weapon Master (Tonfa) In think it should read: Tonfa + Karate + Trained by a master. The +1 thrust damage is for using karate blows Otherwise its just Tonfa + Weapons Master and paired tonfas can be mean too.

10-23-2006, 05:00 PM	#10
Nikolai Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Münster, Germany	Re: Tonfa + Karate + Weapon Master (Tonfa) Smurf, I don't understand what you are driving at. What does Trained by a Master have to do with this? (Nothing as far as I can see.)