Are Telepathy psionic powers restricted to sapient beings creatures ?

[Deathwindfr]

Dear all,

I am wondering whether telepathic powers can affect all beings including non-sapient or non free-willed creatire.

Psionic Powers p 57 says "unless specifically stated to be restricted to
humans, telepathic abilities work on animals, aliens, etc."

So it looks like there is no limit.

But Magic p133 says "Mind Control spells work only on subjects with sapience (racial IQ 6+) and free will (free will is hard to define, but any being with the Automaton meta-trait (p. B263) doesn’t qualify). Thus, they will not work on most animals, golems, robots, zombies,"

By analogy, should telepathic powers be restricted to sapient and/or free willed creatures?

Restricting the use of telepathic powers on sentient (IQ6+) creatures greatly reduces the use on animals most of which will be under IQ6+. It contradicts Psionic Powers p57

Another example is undead. Horror p90 says that Zombies have the Automaton meta-trait. So this type of Zombie should probably be immune to psionic powers?

How has everyone treated this subject?

Do you allow telepathic powers on all animals or only the sentient ones?
Do you allow telepathic powers on all undead or only the sentient ones?

Thanks in advance,

Cheers,







Magic

[ericthered]

You're looking at two different systems.

One is psionic powers, the other is the standard magic system (which is not the only magic system Gurps has -- but those all have official names).

Psionic Powers applies to advantages generally and especially to ones built explicitly as psi with a power modifier (like psi-10% or telepathy -10%).

The Magic book applies to spells built with the standard spell system. Note in your quote: "Mind Control spells work only on..."


I hope that helps!

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by ericthered

You're looking at two different systems.

One is psionic powers, the other is the standard magic system (which is not the only magic system Gurps has -- but those all have official names).

Psionic Powers applies to advantages generally and especially to ones built explicitly as psi with a power modifier (like psi-10% or telepathy -10%).

The Magic book applies to spells built with the standard spell system. Note in your quote: "Mind Control spells work only on..."


I hope that helps!

This!
Also, there is an option in the back of Psionic Powers to be usable on animals.

[Mr_Sandman]

The limitation on magic spells is to distinguish mind reading and control spells from animal communication and control spells. In general, spells are designed to be more specific and limited than psionic powers.

[Deathwindfr]

So basically telepathic psionic powers have no limits whatsoever in standard GURPS rules (unless they heve the Racial limitation cited in Psionic powers but that's supposed to be an exception).

A character with psionic powers can Telecontrol, Mind Blow or Suggest a zombie?

[Flowergarden]

Originally Posted by Deathwindfr

A character with psionic powers can Telecontrol, Mind Blow or Suggest a zombie?

Depends, zombie template in gurps magic gives them Immunity to Mind Control. So I suppose you just give that advantage to everyone who logically should be immune to it

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Deathwindfr

So basically telepathic psionic powers have no limits whatsoever in standard GURPS rules (unless they heve the Racial limitation cited in Psionic powers but that's supposed to be an exception).

A character with psionic powers can Telecontrol, Mind Blow or Suggest a zombie?

Not quite true. Telepathic powers don't normally work on digital systems such as computers, unless you specifically buy them as able to do so. And I think to use them on spirits you would have to take Affects Insubstantial (or if you're a spirit, you would take Affects Substantial). There are broad categories of beings in GURPS, and certain powers don't work across categories.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Not quite true. Telepathic powers don't normally work on digital systems such as computers, unless you specifically buy them as able to do so. And I think to use them on spirits you would have to take Affects Insubstantial (or if you're a spirit, you would take Affects Substantial). There are broad categories of beings in GURPS, and certain powers don't work across categories.

Pretty much this. Also Mind Reading requires Universal or needing to know the targets language, other powers will have various restrictions too and the GM can certainly say they do not work on animals or certain beings as a matter of setting design.
For example GURPS Magic Mind Control college does not work on animals because the setting prompted a separate type of caster to do so. Hence the Animal Control spells.

[Flowergarden]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Pretty much this. Also Mind Reading requires Universal or needing to know the targets language, other powers will have various restrictions too and the GM can certainly say they do not work on animals or certain beings as a matter of setting design.
For example GURPS Magic Mind Control college does not work on animals because the setting prompted a separate type of caster to do so. Hence the Animal Control spells.

If they don't work on something as a setting choice, you just need to add obligatory limitation, I suppose it's accessibility, but I'm not sure.
If you want to change it for magic, than I suppose it's okay, I myself done this because don't have animal/non-animal division lore wise.

As for computers... They have digital mind advantage that gives immunity to telepathic abilities or something.

[Plane]

when it comes to Magic there's usually a hard line between the Mind Control college spells affecting sapient sentients and the Animal college spells affecting sub-sapient sentients... M29 and M133 make that pretty clear and we also see notes about sapience for many Communication and Empathy spells...

Where this line can tend to blur a bit is in the design used in GURPS Sorcery to emulate these college spells using advantages - it is one situation where it will clearly not be a perfect emulation when you look at subtle mechanics.

Lesser Geas is a good example of that - the version on M140 won't work on sub-sapient racial IQs or automatons... but what about the sorcery version on page 21-22 of Thaumatology- Sorcery?

That is designed as Affliction (Variable Enhancement, only for Obsession)

B146 doesn't say anything about this mental disadvantage requiring sapience or free will so it seems possible to afflict obsessions on animals or robots... and there's nothing obvious about the sorcery design which would inhibit afflicting robotic or animal characters with the disadvantage - that would presumably be some form of limitation.