4e Revised

[dataweaver]

I was originally writing this as a response to the 20th Anniversary of 4e thread; but I realized that I was getting off track.

I'd love to get a 4e Revised to commemorate the occasion, retroactively updating the core material with lessons learned over the last two decades while still (mostly) maintaining compatibility with existing 4e supplements: start with implementing Kromm's "Ten for Ten" from Pyramid #3/70, then apply minor tweaks such as changing Off-Hand Weapon Training from a Technique to a Perk, adjust the Spirit template to incorporate Mute (an oversight that 4e supplements have been trying to work around ever since), and possibly reorganizing existing material: Basic Set already provides alphabetical lists of Advantages, Disadvantages, and Skills; so how about incorporating Skill Categories directly into Characters and at least attempting to organize all Advantages and Disadvantages in the same manner that the various Social traits are organized? Lump Advantages, Disadvantages, Perks, Quirks, and Features together into a single section, but group them into thematically related Categories similar to Skill Categories.

In my wildest dreams, I'd split the Basic Set into at least three books, with the third book featuring Exotic and Superhuman Traits as well as the Magic and Psionics chapters and the Meta-Traits and Racial Templates from Characters (because, let's face it, Meta-Traits are nearly always used to provide components for Racial Templates rather than Professional Templates), and splitting the Creating Templates chapter in Campaigns between Characters (for advice on creating Professional Templates) and the new book (for creating Racial Templates). The idea would be for each of the three core books to be roughly 200 pages each, with the first book dealing with normal human characters, the second book dealing with inhuman and empowered characters, and the third book being mostly game rules and GM advice.

Thoughts?

[TGLS]

OK, in my 4e revised Slave Mentality would be renamed No Initiative and a little note would be attached to it saying it used to be called Slave Mentality.

[Anders]

Divorce Per and Will from IQ.

[Donny Brook]

Make Fast-Draw a skill-based Perk.

Improve the animal examples.

Incorporate Powers into the core books.

[JMason]

I think all I'd really like to see is Basic Set reorganized, new art, etc. If they wanted to add in some minor adjustments like the 10 for 10, I wouldn't be opposed. I also think that the skill list could be redone to make a lot of skills just a version of "Knowledge (X)".

But what I'd really like so see is a new version of Lite, adding some magic back in and making it a better tool to sell people on the system.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Improve the animal examples.

What would you recommend?

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Incorporate Powers into the core books.

Agreed. This can be done with minimal effort by taking the Psionics chapter and generalizing it to a Powers chapter, with Psionics used as a worked example. Maybe even excerpt portions from GURPS Psionic Powers so that the owner has something ready to use out of the box.

Which is another reason to split Characters into two books.

[binn05]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I was originally writing this as a response to the 20th Anniversary of 4e thread; but I realized that I was getting off track.

I'd love to get a 4e Revised to commemorate the occasion, retroactively updating the core material with lessons learned over the last two decades while still (mostly) maintaining compatibility with existing 4e supplements: start with implementing Kromm's "Ten for Ten" from Pyramid #3/70, then apply minor tweaks such as changing Off-Hand Weapon Training from a Technique to a Perk, adjust the Spirit template to incorporate Mute (an oversight that 4e supplements have been trying to work around ever since), and possibly reorganizing existing material: Basic Set already provides alphabetical lists of Advantages, Disadvantages, and Skills; so how about incorporating Skill Categories directly into Characters and at least attempting to organize all Advantages and Disadvantages in the same manner that the various Social traits are organized? Lump Advantages, Disadvantages, Perks, Quirks, and Features together into a single section, but group them into thematically related Categories similar to Skill Categories.

In my wildest dreams, I'd split the Basic Set into at least three books, with the third book featuring Exotic and Superhuman Traits as well as the Magic and Psionics chapters and the Meta-Traits and Racial Templates from Characters (because, let's face it, Meta-Traits are nearly always used to provide components for Racial Templates rather than Professional Templates), and splitting the Creating Templates chapter in Campaigns between Characters (for advice on creating Professional Templates) and the new book (for creating Racial Templates). The idea would be for each of the three core books to be roughly 200 pages each, with the first book dealing with normal human characters, the second book dealing with inhuman and empowered characters, and the third book being mostly game rules and GM advice.

Thoughts?

I agree. A better presentation and reorganization of topics would help many new players.
Also, graphical improvements. Today's market wants shiny colors and glossy pages.
I would also update to 4E the solo adventure "A Night's Work" from 3E and include it in the basic set. It helped me a lot to understand GURPS during the 3E era.
At the end, a page with a link to Caravan to Ein Arris will help people GM and play a ready-to-go adventure. Include with it pre-gen 150-point characters.
Those two "modules" would teach newcomers basic combat and social interaction.

Create one more free adventure for the Dungeon Fantasy series to teach basic magic use and a little bit of powers. Also, include 150-point pre-gen characters.

I emphasize 150 points instead of DF 250 because it is easier to manage 150 points than 250, and they can still act within their chosen niche.

Link, in some way, all three "modules" with Infinite Worlds if it will continue to be GURPS default setting.

Also, each of your three books must come with 50 to 250-point iconic characters. And more down-to-earth ones, instead of the "I have no idea how to play this C3IR07-guy".

I would include a line of novels with iconic characters and settings, such as Dragonlance romances. But that is off-topic.

[Lord_Kjeran]

Is it sad that 20+ years later, I'm still running 3e? Lol

If there were a 4eR, however, I'd prefer a one book presentation. I realize that's not optimal, but the three book format sounds intriguing. I can see that...players, GM, Special.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by JMason

I think all I'd really like to see is Basic Set reorganized, new art, etc. If they wanted to add in some minor adjustments like the 10 for 10, I wouldn't be opposed. I also think that the skill list could be redone to make a lot of skills just a version of "Knowledge (X)".

But what I'd really like so see is a new version of Lite, adding some magic back in and making it a better tool to sell people on the system.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the Skill restructuring from GURPS Lite implemented in a 4e Revised.

I'm also in favor of a line of supplements for GURPS Lite serving as "adapters" to appropriate sourcebooks: e.g., a GURPS Martial Arts Lite that has everything needed to use GURPS Martial Arts that isn't in GURPS Lite. But that would be a separate project.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by binn05

I agree. A better presentation and reorganization of topics would help many new players.
Also, graphical improvements. Today's market wants shiny colors and glossy pages.
I would also update to 4E the solo adventure "A Night's Work" from 3E and include it in the basic set. It helped me a lot to understand GURPS during the 3E era.
At the end, a page with a link to Caravan to Ein Arris will help people GM and play a ready-to-go adventure. Include with it pre-gen 150-point characters.
Those two "modules" would teach newcomers basic combat and social interaction.

Create one more free adventure for the Dungeon Fantasy series to teach basic magic use and a little bit of powers. Also, include 150-point pre-gen characters.

I emphasize 150 points instead of DF 250 because it is easier to manage 150 points than 250, and they can still act within their chosen niche.

Link, in some way, all three "modules" with Infinite Worlds if it will continue to be GURPS default setting.

Also, each of your three books must come with 50 to 250-point iconic characters. And more down-to-earth ones, instead of the "I have no idea how to play this C3IR07-guy".

I would include a line of novels with iconic characters and settings, such as Dragonlance romances. But that is off-topic.

Agreed about most of your suggestions. I'd put most of the 4e sample characters in the Special book, as they tend to rely on the Exotic and/or Supernatural tree Traits; I'd remove Dai's Warp and put him back as a generic TL3 thief; and I'd fill out the Characters book with interesting but "ordinary" characters suitable to Caravan to Ein Arris.

Actually, I'd provide four or five Professional Templates, each with the aim of being as generic and universal as possible, corresponding loosely to That Other Game's archetypes: a fighter, a rogue, a scholar, a medic, and an entertainer; then I'd have each of the Characters book's sample characters being an example of one of those Templates in use, plus one "freeform" sample character to illustrate that you don't need to use the Professional Templates if you don't want to.

Oh: I wouldn't include iconic characters in the Campaigns book,; I'd include All In a Night's Work and Caravan to Ein Arris instead..