Boosting spells with extra ST

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

There is a rule that states a wizard that knows a multi hex spell gets all the lower numbers of hex spells for free.

So when you take the 3-hex version of the spell (paying the full cost of 1 for it), then the 1-hex version you previously had becomes free. I see no other way to interpret that.

The lower-level spell can't be free and cost 1 at the same time.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Shostak

It seems easier to just allow the acquisition of the more powerful version of the spell when IQ reaches the requirement. And, given that TFT IQ stands for many things, having it be the key to unlock greater power seems appropriate.

Very well put!

[hcobb]

4-Hex Illusion takes 14 pages in a spellbook, but this includes the ability to cast 1-Hex Illusion which only takes 11 pages.

What's in those extra three pages if the difference is purely in the mind of the sorcerer?

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by hcobb

4-Hex Illusion takes 14 pages in a spellbook, but this includes the ability to cast 1-Hex Illusion which only takes 11 pages.

What's in those extra three pages if the difference is purely in the mind of the sorcerer?

Illustrations of larger figures on a hex grid with indications of front, side, and rear hexes.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

So when you take the 3-hex version of the spell (paying the full cost of 1 for it), then the 1-hex version you previously had becomes free.

You're assuming a process of taking spells up to the limits of IQ. In Classic this was how it works. But in Legacy this is only how it works in generation, hence the inability to save IQ points for later. After generation it's 500 XP to buy a spell, and once you've bought it there are no rules allowing a refund if the spell later becomes cheaper.

I think the idea of making people buy the new spell sucks and I'm all in favour of a house rule to ditch it, along with many other things about the Legacy experience system. But as it stands I think it's RAW.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I think the idea of making people buy the new spell sucks and I'm all in favour of a house rule to ditch it, along with many other things about the Legacy experience system. But as it stands I think it's RAW.

Fortunately, we're not burdened by RAW in this forum.

[EKB]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Fortunately, we're not burdened by RAW in this forum.

Yes. This.

It's just that house rules on this point need to be different depending on whether one uses the Legacy or Classic rules for learning new spells.

For Legacy I'd suggest something like "If you spend xp to buy the improved version of the spell, you then get the xp of the basic version back as a refund. So the net cost is 'free,' but you need to have the liquid xp available to make that transaction."

For Classic (or at least my house-ruled version of it) I'm starting to lean toward something like "If you know the basic spell, you're considered to have the advanced versions 'under study' in addition to your standard three 'under study' slots. So if your IQ increases to meet the IQ required for the advanced spell, then you learn it at once if you've known the basic version for at least a game year. Otherwise you have to wait until you reach that 'known it for a game year' point."

Thus, if you have IQ 14 and study 4-hex Illusion from a book, you can learn it in a year (or when you get a free point of IQ, whichever come later). If you only have a book with 1-hex Illusion, you can learn the 1-hex (but not 4-hex) version in one year. Then after a second year, without need for a book or teacher, you pick up the 4-hex version as well.

Originally Posted by hcobb

4-Hex Illusion takes 14 pages in a spellbook, but this includes the ability to cast 1-Hex Illusion which only takes 11 pages.

What's in those extra three pages if the difference is purely in the mind of the sorcerer?

So my answer would be "those three pages have stuff to help you learn faster if you have IQ 14"

But then there's the question, "If you have only IQ 11, can you learn 1-hex Illusion from a spellbook with the 14 pages of 4-hex Illusion?"

[David Bofinger]

I think it would be a lot cleaner if there were one spell with multiple casting modes, but since TFT gatekeeps spells only through ST usage and IQ prerequisite to learn that's a bit of an awkward thing to do in a TFT-like way.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I think it would be a lot cleaner if there were one spell with multiple casting modes, but since TFT gatekeeps spells only through ST usage and IQ prerequisite to learn that's a bit of an awkward thing to do in a TFT-like way.

Agreed. Even by doing this there would remain more than enough spells to always leave one wishing for more XP with which to learn them.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Agreed. Even by doing this there would remain more than enough spells to always leave one wishing for more XP with which to learn them.

I remember that in our Classic TFT days, we allowed the more powerful version of the spell to be learned when the IQ requisite was met. This was especially true for the multi-hex versions of spells. Legacy TFT only seemed to reserve that at character creation and then make you pay for it later. I will probably house rule it to our Classic approach.

Now, I will have to ask about the Staff Spells. Since their present form is unique to Legacy TFT, I would still require an IQ point per staff spell. Perhaps, that is not consistent with the new house rule but I would have to be convinced to include the Staff spells in this house rule.