Martial Arts Abilities

[David Bofinger]

So when you said this:

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

a precedent for 'powers' to model some of the kinds of abilities common to wuxia archetypes (though their implementation is different from what I propose). See the TFT Companion.

I assumed you were talking about Superheroes in The Fantasy Trip, The Space Gamer 65, reprinted in The TFT Companion.

So assuming I got that right, when you say:

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I don't see a place for "supernatural talents" at all in TFT

Does that mean you see a difference between supernatural talents on the one hand and powers like those in the article on the other, and you think the first one is bad and the second is OK? If so, what's the difference?

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

Does that mean you see a difference between supernatural talents on the one hand and powers like those in the article on the other, and you think the first one is bad and the second is OK? If so, what's the difference?

The 'Superheroes' article presents a third option for character development... superpowers. That was an interesting idea to me back-in-the-day, though never used by my gaming group (we played V&V and Champions instead). I resurrected the idea of having a third option when I started my TFTe ('e' for evolved) project because I saw an opportunity and a need (some to address existing aberrations like the STAFF spells as you also pointed out) for a set of character abilities that were neither talents nor spells.

So your question doesn't have an answer for me because I don't want there to be "supernatural talents" in the game. I want talents to only represent natural capabilities, some on the high end of course, but all of them representing achievable, non-magical skills and abilities. It's not an issue of 'good' or 'bad', it's just a design line that I don't want to cross... one bucket for talents (temporal), one for spells (magical), and one for a third category that is blend of both... or neither.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

Maybe this is just a semantic confusion. I'm not sure any more what Steve meant when he said supernatural abilities should be magic, did he mean they should be spells? I thought so at the time, now I don't know. And I'm not sure what you see as the difference between a supernatural talent on the one hand and a power on the other.

Yes David, I meant "spells" where I typed "magic", so you got my meaning correctly. Now in the broad sense of course those aren't equal terms, but specific to the context of TFT rules "spells" (directly or indirectly through items that contain "spells") are usually the only way characters can use "magic" in play, so I wasn't worried about which term I used in that narrow context. Here I better watch that!

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

The 'Superheroes' article presents a third option for character development... superpowers. That was an interesting idea to me back-in-the-day, though never used by my gaming group......I resurrected the idea of having a third option when I started my TFTe ('e' for evolved) project because I saw.....a need.....for a set of character abilities that were neither talents nor spells.

So your question doesn't have an answer for me because I don't want there to be "supernatural talents" in the game. I want talents to only represent natural capabilities, some on the high end of course, but all of them representing achievable, non-magical skills and abilities.....one bucket for talents (temporal), one for spells (magical), and one for a third category that is blend of both... or neither.

I feel just as strongly about about the in-game separation of what TFT calls "Talents" and what TFT calls "Spells", so I see no room for supernatural "Talents", but again as a matter of nomenclature.

That said I'm completely in favor of a third category, or a fourth or even a fifth of capabilities that would never get classed as "Spells" or "Talents", even if they share some of the same game mechanics.

Heck, I even have a supernatural ability (among what you'd call my own "TFTe" project rules) that's a case in point called HEALER. It can't be learned as a "Talent", nor is it a "Spell". A character has to be born with it (meaning it can't be taken after character creation). The HEALER can perform a "laying on of hands" on a wounded figure, converting damage hits to fatigue hits.

I don't call things like that "Talents" or skills or "Spells", I call them INNATE ABILITIES. That one, HEALER, is supernatural but there can be other INNATE ABILITIES that are purely natural, or straddle the line between natural and magical. Some other examples from my rules are KEEN SMELL, and DEPTH SENSE. By definition my INNATE ABILITIES are capabilities you have to be born with and generally can't be learned later. So they aren't "Talents" but I borrow the game mechanic to regulate "Talents" and set a cost in talent/memory points to pay for them, but again that payment must be at character creation and they can't be learned later. Being born with one means you can't learn as many other things later, just to maintain balance. Doesn't have to be that mechanic, it's just what I went with. Equally valid might be to charge an attribute point at character creation for any "special powers". Just so advantages are paid for with disadvantages, we can add all kinds of things to TFT without breaking the game.

Hope I don't confuse anyone with terminology. Especially in the discussion we're having here there are a lot of words that have both general meanings and specific in-game rules meanings. I've got to remind myself I should use ALL CAPS when I mean something strictly as a rules term.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

I don't call things like that "Talents" or skills or "Spells", I call them INNATE ABILITIES. That one, HEALER, is supernatural but there can be other INNATE ABILITIES that are purely natural, or straddle the line between natural and magical. Some other examples from my rules are KEEN SMELL, and DEPTH SENSE. By definition my INNATE ABILITIES are capabilities you have to be born with and generally can't be learned later. So they aren't "Talents" but I borrow the game mechanic to regulate "Talents" and set a cost in talent/memory points to pay for them, but again that payment must be at character creation and they can't be learned later. Being born with one means you can't learn as many other things later, just to maintain balance. Doesn't have to be that mechanic, it's just what I went with. Equally valid might be to charge an attribute point at character creation for any "special powers". Just so advantages are paid for with disadvantages, we can add all kinds of things to TFT without breaking the game.

I have something similar that are called 'Traits'. Mine aren't selectable, though. Most are baked into specific racial or cultural profiles.

But circling back to the topic of this thread, I can certainly understand why someone would prefer not to add a new character option for supernatural abilities that do not operate like spells. Many of the techniques we see in wuxia movies don't diminish the character’s overall power-level which is essentially what spells do, right? Thus, if those are part of the campaign's theme, you'll need another way to present them. Talents can provide a channel for that if you're OK with stretching their definition and usage.

Another solution that wouldn't require any change to the game's framework (though I wouldn't use it myself) is a wish. I could see a GM allowing a Lesser Wish (available for the low price of 500 XP) to grant a one-time or limited-use power. A Greater Wish could make such abilities permanent, although I could also see a demon having a field day re-interpreting something like "I wish to have a power allowing me to float across rooftops and treetops".

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I have something similar that are called 'Traits'. Mine aren't selectable, though. Most are baked into specific racial or cultural profiles.

I neglected to say, but most (all but one) of my "Innate Abilities" were written up to codify those "perks" the non-human races start with. I gave Giants KEEN SMELL because they didn't have anything and because, well, y'now, that fee-fi-fo-fum business :)

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Another solution that wouldn't require any change to the game's framework (though I wouldn't use it myself) is a wish. I could see a GM allowing a Lesser Wish (available for the low price of 500 XP) to grant a one-time or limited-use power. A Greater Wish could make such abilities permanent, although I could also see a demon having a field day re-interpreting something like "I wish to have a power allowing me to float across rooftops and treetops".

Look, up there in the sky, it's a bird? it's a birthday baloon? It's flailing its arms a lot and crying for help.

Oh that's just Joe -- I told him to be careful with that wish.