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#1 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Hey all,
Coupled with my discussion of overland speculative trade a few weeks (months?) ago, I've been brainstorming a system for running "hexcrawls" in GURPS. First of all, huge shout out to Bill Stoddard and Sean Punch for their previous advice and work on DF16 - Wilderness Adventures, respectively. They've been an immense help! On to the actual topic. From DF16 - Wilderness Adventures, p. 27: "Conquerors and delvers prize area maps. Creating these on foot means zigzagging across a region for longer than is fun for most players." My question here is, assuming you did have players interested in this, especially as it relates to long-running campaigns, how long would it take? I should note that I realize the answer to this question is infinitely variable depending on the specifics of terrain; my primary goal here is coming up with something that is reasonable, gameable, and that is preferably more grounded than "as long as you want it to take." What follows is some of my own musings on the topic. I am not an expert on this topic so consider this sentence as one big qualifier for what follows. Feedback and advice is welcome and encouraged. The smallest scale for area maps seems to be about 1:5,000, wherein one inch on a map corresponds to 5,000 inches, or about 420 feet. Assuming we want a map that is accurate enough to distinguish, say, individual units in a tenement building, we'll probably want it accurate to around 10 feet. That's the modern equivalent of 42 dpi, or about 1,800 data points per square inch. Quote:
Jinumon |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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The normal bonus for "in plain sight" is +10, so Jane can accurately map things within 200 yards, making for a 400 yard observation radius. That would double her mapping speed. Everything else looks good.
Though extreme terrain is going to slow her mapping. If she's going through thick woods that limit her line of sight to 50 yards, her movement speed is slowed but her observation radius is cut down a lot.
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Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com |
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#3 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Assuming my logic is sound I'll just need to figure out some solid baselines for sight lines in various terrains and should be able to expand from there. Jinumon |
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#4 | |
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Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Quote:
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
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#5 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Low-tech surveying is a lot of work with chains and rods and a groma or dioptra interspersed with arithmetic and geometry. If its by eye, its sketching not surveying. A spy or military engineer will be expected to know both. Stories about the British surveys of India and Central Asia in the 19th century are easy to find in English and good models for adventure stories. A bit of digging should turn up how fast survey teams work and how long it took to say sketch a fort that the John Company might have to take one day.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 04-24-2024 at 03:58 PM. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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The full survey will require a team of labourers to trim and fell trees, build platforms for the surveyor on steep slopes, and so on (and then cooks, laundresses, muletenders, etc. for the labourers). They often get in trouble with locals in remote areas, and local powerbrokers are usually unhappy with the idea that outside authorities will know a lot about them a few years from now.
"Something went wrong with the survey of Upper Ruritania" can be a good adventure hook, as can be "travel to the lands of the Burnt Umber Elves and record all the distances and sketches you can without being defenestrated and fed to the hawksloths." In Dungeon Fantasy, possibly "get this team of surveyors close enough to the peak of Mt. Gloom to measure its height and survey the surrounding country without being eaten by basilisks or sacrificed by the storm cult; the empress' favourite painter wants the proportions in his next landscape to be accurate."
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 04-24-2024 at 04:29 PM. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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In a setting with access to GURPS Magic, a number of tools are available that would be extremely useful to surveyors, mostly in the Information school -- for example, Tell Position, Wizard Eye, and Remember Path.
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#8 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Or, over in the Making and Breaking college on p.118, Mapmaker.
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Steven E. Ehrbar GURPS Technomancer resources. Including The Renegade Mage's Unofficial GURPS Magic Spell Errata, last updated July 7th, 2023. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Never forget the avarice of DF adventurers. If there's money to be made mapping hexes as well as bounties to be collected for killing monsters, PCs will happily hex-bash.
If the GM wants to encourage hex-bashing, the simple adventure hook is that a local ruler has received a land grant to territory on the fringes of civilization. S/he will pay a handsome fee per monster slain within the designated territory. Magical "tags" are provided at a nominal price, allowing adventurers to geolocate monster kills to limit cheating. General terrain maps are provided for free to anyone who who wants to travel into the territories. Once the monsters have been killed or "persuaded" to relocate, s/he hires one or more survey expeditions, promising a handsome fee per square mile/verst/whatever accurately mapped, as long as cadastral markers can be placed to verify accuracy. Finally, parcels of land are sold (or leased) to people who will actually settle the land changing the campaign from hex-bashing to hex-settling. If the ruler is lucky, all that startup money spent on scruffy murder hoboes and surveyors will be worth it. They'll make a huge pile of money as well as expanding their political power base. As for maps, you're talking about three different types of mapping. A general terrain map, made from memory, is sufficient to note terrain features of interest, but not distances or exact directions unless the person making the map has traits such as Absolute Direction and Eidetic Memory. That sort of sketch might require an IQ roll to properly recall details and another Artist (Drawing) skill roll an 10-20 minutes to make the sketch. These sorts of maps were often "good enough" for battlefield purposes, especially if the cartographer was also good at explaining the tactical significance of certain features. They'd be good enough to get adventurers to the generally right place, especially given decent landmarks, and would be the basic "map you buy off a mysterious stranger in a tavern" type map. A terrain sketch can be accomplished by one person with Artist (Drawing) skill. Assuming relatively flat terrain, an artist might need to stop every mile or so. In more rolling terrain, the artist will travel from hill to hill (or mountain to mountain) and draw the terrain in different directions. If they wanted to get fancy, they might create sketches for a cyclorama. That means travel time + ~15-20 minutes for a basic terrain sketch, per view sketched. A series of terrain sketches might be good enough to cancel penalties for not knowing the local terrain during a Mass Combat campaign and might be useful for other general planning purposes, like siting a castle or encampment. This sort of mapping might be overkill for adventurers, however. Price ranges from junk sale prices for "quaint sketches of the Northlands" to priceless for "accurate drawings of the Allied Invasion Beaches" The last type is a formal map, used for navigation or legal purposes. Nautical charts which map currents, coastal landmarks, bottom depths and predominant wind directions are incredibly valuable to "merchant adventurer" or military ship captains. Topographic or geographic maps are really only useful if you're fighting a battle in the area or selling (or taxing) land. Good consistent topo maps, distributed to all subordinate commanders in an army, might give a bonus to Tactics rolls in Mass Combat and a high-quality master topographic map might be worth a great deal to the right king or general. If someone's been given a land grant and wants to sell that land to others, a high-quality geographical map which lays out exact land areas is also extremely valuable. All of these sorts of maps require Surveying and Cartography skill rolls to produce, possibly with Meteorology and Shiphandling skill rolls to produce nautical charts. Absent magical assistance, they require a team of at least 5 men and possibly a wagon pulled by a team of horses or mules. A reasonable surveying rate in forest or plains terrain might be 5-10 square miles per day. That rate goes way down, as does map accuracy, in difficult terrain or bad weather conditions. Edit: As for mapping techniques. Don't forget the incredible value of the Levitation or Flight spells. Reliable aerial mapping revolutionized mapmaking. Last edited by Pursuivant; 04-24-2024 at 08:07 PM. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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The Earth college has Detect Pass. That might putt he user in the "Primary explorer" rather than the mapper or surveyor category.
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Fred Brackin |
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| Tags |
| cartography, low-tech, mapping, observation, wilderness adventures |
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