Magic on the TL 3 battlefield

[Fred Brackin]

There are a few simple damaging Spells that have disproportionate effect.

Take Create Fire. cast it on top of a formation of soldiers and the soldiers may only take a few pts of damage before they jump out of the area but you've busted their formation. Add Shape Fire and you can chase them across the battlefield faster than armored infantry can march.

As for cavalry, horses _really_ aren't going to have anything to do with such a combo.

The Opfor can try and match all Create/Shape Fire Mages with extinguis Fire Mages (or maybe Water Jet) but miss one and you've still got big trouble. Fight Fire with Fire and that just means everybody shifts to dispersed troops of the "skirmish" type.

No heavy formations for shock and defense is a pretty big change.

[Anthony]

Some of this depends on what the range is for hostile observers is for ceremonial magic, because 100 extra energy from friendly observers goes a long way. Aside from C3I, GURPS Magic has some very strong positional defense spells, such as mystic mist.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Some of this depends on what the range is for hostile observers is for ceremonial magic, because 100 extra energy from friendly observers goes a long way. Aside from C3I, GURPS Magic has some very strong positional defense spells, such as mystic mist.

Not so much TL3, but you could imagine this sort of thing being behind something like the Zulu war chorus or something ... by chanting and performing a ceremonial dance, you have whole regiments feeding power to your magi. Actually, I could see the Romans doing that - perhaps with the aquilae serving as some kind of accumulator?

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Not so much TL3, but you could imagine this sort of thing being behind something like the Zulu war chorus or something ... by chanting and performing a ceremonial dance, you have whole regiments feeding power to your magi. Actually, I could see the Romans doing that - perhaps with the aquilae serving as some kind of accumulator?

And among other things, possibly disguising their nature as participants in a ceremonial ritual. A hundred grunts standing in a clump and chanting in unison, I'm going to put fire on that location. Three thousand spearmen chanting, and General Bumph may just well shrug and say to his ADC, "The wogs are nerving themselves up to have a go."


On the demographic front, meh. This is one people constantly muff when it comes to magic discussions. It's not whether one person in a thousand is a doctor or an engineer. The analogy is whether one person in a thousand is genetically capable of becoming a doctor or an engineer. Magery has to be damn common in a society to get one full-scale mage per thousand in the military.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Not so much TL3, but you could imagine this sort of thing being behind something like the Zulu war chorus or something ... by chanting and performing a ceremonial dance, you have whole regiments feeding power to your magi. Actually, I could see the Romans doing that - perhaps with the aquilae serving as some kind of accumulator?

Or for that matter a Catholic army holding a Mass before the battle. All kinds of groups have rituals aimed at raising spiritual power to aid them in battle, it's just that in this context the power has more dramatically tangible effects.

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

And among other things, possibly disguising their nature as participants in a ceremonial ritual. A hundred grunts standing in a clump and chanting in unison, I'm going to put fire on that location. Three thousand spearmen chanting, and General Bumph may just well shrug and say to his ADC, "The wogs are nerving themselves up to have a go."

Why would they do thay? Raising magical power for the battle is just one of those things armies in a magical setting do, the general will know perfectly well what they're doing, he just can't really stop them, anymore than they can stop his side's ritual (unless the two armies are close enough for the hostile observer effect to kick in, but they won't be, because that would hurt both sides. More likely they're formed up just outside that range, the main force doing the rituals en masse while skirmishers try to locate the groups that contain the actual mages and disrupt their energy gathering,and others try to keep the enemy skirmishers away from theirs.

On the demographic front, meh. This is one people constantly muff when it comes to magic discussions. It's not whether one person in a thousand is a doctor or an engineer. The analogy is whether one person in a thousand is genetically capable of becoming a doctor or an engineer. Magery has to be damn common in a society to get one full-scale mage per thousand in the military.

I don't really hold with "Magery as innate characteristic," but as also noted in the OP it doesn't matter where rhe mages come from. I chose 1 mage per thousand troops as the minimum level of magical prevalence that would have consistent, predictable effects on tactical and strategic doctrines. If mages are much rarer than that, any army that has them will take what they can get and shape their tactics around whatever specific tricks the mages they have happen to be able to do.

[Anthony]

I would note that battle prep could be a big deal. Magic has tools that make fortifications easier to overcome, but it also has tools that make fortifications, particularly field grade fortifications, much easier to create.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Take Create Fire. cast it on top of a formation of soldiers and the soldiers may only take a few pts of damage before they jump out of the area but you've busted their formation. Add Shape Fire and you can chase them across the battlefield faster than armored infantry can march.

As for cavalry, horses _really_ aren't going to have anything to do with such a combo.

The Opfor can try and match all Create/Shape Fire Mages with extinguis Fire Mages (or maybe Water Jet) but miss one and you've still got big trouble. Fight Fire with Fire and that just means everybody shifts to dispersed troops of the "skirmish" type.

No heavy formations for shock and defense is a pretty big change.

Sure. If you houserule away the -1/three FEET distance mod. That's the elephant on the battlefield, when it comes to the effectiveness of damage spells on the GURPS battlefield. If I'm the OPFOR commander, I am not going to meekly line my army up in one nice, dense, shoulder to shoulder mass, conveniently missile weapon free and standing in ready range to your battlemages. And should something like a wall of fire suddenly spring up as I call the advance? Then I do something intelligent and tell the drummers to call the halt. I bet I can outwait the casters' Fatigue reserves, especially given how hefty the cost is to maintain a large area.

And yeah, the 100-extra-energy bit is bruited about in such discussions pretty often. So here I am, once again, the OPFOR commander, and if I see any group of the enemy clustered together in such a formation, standing still and concentrating? I'm going to be highly motivated to bring any artillery I've got to bear on them. I'm not even so much thinking of the golden bullet of taking the mage out as in having a few onager loads worth of fist sized stones breaking the ritual up. Etc etc etc.

Mages are just way too valuable for things others have mentioned: C3I, healing, weather manipulation, and so on. Hell, I'd rather have an Animal mage more than just about anything else, either to control the bird that's observing the enemy order of battle, or to control the falcon that's going after the enemy Animal mage's bird.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Sure. If you houserule away the -1/three FEET distance mod. d.

That's what the Shape Fire is for. You cast the Create spell next to you and then use the Shape to move it to where you need it faster than any formation of even lightly encumbered infantry. 300 yards per minute in fact.

Then if you start using Ceremonial Magic to get the 100 spectator boost you're talking really big running masses of fire with enough juice for maintaining that you can start them 600 yards or more away from the enemy.

What you need to counter that is probably something like Mongol cavalry that's been trained out of its' fear of fire (men _and_ horses).

It's not unbeatable but it's not going to go away with trivial counters and it probably seriously impairs any ability to fight in formation. That's a big change to the battlefield.

Advanced Mages with the Telecast Spell can effectrively make the -1 per yard go away too.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

That's what the Shape Fire is for. You cast the Create spell next to you and then use the Shape to move it to where you need it faster than any formation of even lightly encumbered infantry. 300 yards per minute in fact ...

Advanced Mages with the Telecast Spell can effectrively make the -1 per yard go away too.

Shape Fire: base cost 2, in addition to the base cost 2 for creating it in the first place. No, you're not going to make a large scale wave of flame dance across the battlefield, especially given that:

(a) In order to do so, you need to open a section of your lines wide enough to allow that mass of flame to get through, unless you:

(b) have your battlemage right in the front line, at which point:

(c) the enemy commander can bloody well see where the center is, and has every incentive to pour missile fire right on that point, never mind:

(d) having his own mage have his already linked/held triple strength Rain spell let loose, at a vastly lower cost than the Fire spell.

Sure: if you have an archmage in your ranks, there's Telecast. I will see your archmage and raise with mine, who'll go with Counterspell.


Yes, yes, I know that it's Awesome and Kewl to have wizards dominate battlefields with some of these spells. With the limitations baked into the system -- and we haven't even touched on that the participants in a ceremonial cast need to be chanting, or holding candles, or doing something that's scarcely military and decidedly noticeable -- a sensible commander just isn't going to go with it.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Yes, yes, I know that it's Awesome and Kewl to have wizards dominate battlefields with some of these spells. t.

It is also apparently Awesome and Kewl to ignore what other people actually say and just belittle their opinions by waving your hands vigorously.

I think we're done here.