Helicopter dive rules

[Dr Rick]

Time for another question (can you spot I'm a returner yet?) :).

I know from reading back through the forum some of you played with choppers. Most of it I'm comfortable with, but I'm trying to understand the dive rules and the associated hazards.

Both Compendium and Aeroduel have examples of dives. The Compendium one of only of pulling out of a dive, and actually contains almost no detail, so doesn't help. The Aeroduel "example" is obvious nonsense and doesn't work on its own terms.

So. Does anybody feel like they understand the helicopter dive rules?

What I think should happen is this: a helicopter has altitude, speed, and dive rate.
Its dive rate is added to its "normal" speed to get its forward speed for that phase.
Its dive rate also translates into downward motion exactly as per usual (1" per turn per 10mph).

A helicopter can decrease its dive rate (in inches per turn) in the same way it would otherwise climb (and can only climb if its dive rate is zero).

I think this is what the Compendium is trying to say, at least. But then "dive is a D1 manoeuvre in any phase in which the chopper moves forwards 2" or more" makes no sense at all to me. A dive is a thing you do for a whole turn, not an in-phase manoeuvre!

I would understand *altering dive rate* being a manoeuvre.

I suspect helicopters engaging cars generally won't be high enough to want to dive much, but I'd still like to know what they intended, since it's definitely not what they wrote. Or maybe I just can't read nowadays? We never played anything but wheeled vehicles back when.

[HeatDeath]

You are correct that diving is more accurately described as a distinct movement mode than a maneuver. What the text mentioning diving as a maneuver is telling us is that, on top of everything else the preceding paragraph said about diving, you have to make a d1 maneuver roll in every phase the movement chart has you moving two inches (as opposed to 1) as long as you stay in diving mode.

This distinction is clearer in Champions 1e than in the Compendium because moving 2" in a phase was so much more unusual back then, since the standard was still the pocket box's 10-phase movement chart.

[Dr Rick]

I'd considered and discarded that possibility on the ground that a cumulative D5 per turn when doing 100+ (as you surely would be) was absurd. But if it's hanging over from ten-phase, we should probably read it as 3" phases being D1 for some sort of balance. I shall amend it as that.

I suspect in normal use (attacking convoys/cycle gangs) nobody ever actually dived anyway, since it doesn't help to get your front guns into play and you're unlikely to be high enough _or_ need the extra speed.

[swordtart]

You can also lose altitude without diving (admittedly at only 1/2" per turn) and that to be honest is the only way I ever used Helos - all the movement is far too complicated to my simple mind.

As you can put bottom mounted weapons in cargo spaces (for some inexplicable reason) there is no real benefit to having front mounted ones and therefore no need to dive.

I was hoping Aeroduel would sort this all out, but it seems to make a lot of things worse.

If you think the rules for Helos are bad, look at Gliders, they make close to zero sense :)

[Dr Rick]

Yeah, the Aeroduel rules give a different example of diving choppers than the one used in both ADC and Compendium, and while theirs is unclear, the Aeroduel one is complete nonsense.

My feeling is I'll use the whole-turn-five rule essentially as written, but compensate for the 5-phase chart by changing 2" to 3" in the manoeuvre section. (Though it should be a hazard, I think - I don't think you're supposed to not be able to make other manoeuvres while diving fast.)

[43Supporter]

If one wants to simplify the climbing|diving rules, just consider the climb|dive as an "add-on" to any maneuvers performed that phase -- for ex.: If one performs a 45-degree turn, plus a 2"-or-greater dive, it's a total D4 in that phase (D3 turn, +D1 for the dive, total D4).

As to "when in the phase it happens": I always figured the horizontal first; it approximates the parabolic shape of the maneuver in Reality.