Fast-Draw (Buckler)

[Donny Brook]

Count me skeptical too. Maybe a buckler small enough (DB0) to hang on the front of your belt, but Fast-Drawing anything else seems far-fetched.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Count me skeptical too. Maybe a buckler small enough (DB0) to hang on the front of your belt, but Fast-Drawing anything else seems far-fetched.

I think a DB1 buckler would be possible to Fast-Draw from a belt; DB2 would probably be pushing it, and DB3 would be right out. As indicated by Doug, checking out Shields Up may be worthwhile here, although considering that's a DFRPG product it leans rather heavily on the cinematic side. Realistically, I think I could see even a DB3 buckler being eligible for Fast-Draw, but only if it's on a guige, and you'd probably need two hands - you basically carry it around with it hanging on your back, then when you need it you grab it and whip it around to the front, grabbing the handle as you go. You might also be able to manage something adapting the looped bandolier+nail Shad came up with for bows and spears for shields, although that's not something you'd likely be able to stow a large buckler away with quickly.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Count me skeptical too. Maybe a buckler small enough (DB0) to hang on the front of your belt, but Fast-Drawing anything else seems far-fetched.

Given that Fast-Draw (Ammo) exists, I could believe a Fast-Draw specialization that just shortens the time to ready the weapon, rather than making it instantly ready (I can certainly believe that some items cannot be made instantly ready, though).

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Varyon

As indicated by Doug, checking out Shields Up may be worthwhile here, although considering that's a DFRPG product it leans rather heavily on the cinematic side.

So, for what it's worth, the way I tend to deal with this is to always start with "can it be done at all, really?" If not, we bury it behind a power of some sort - it's an advantage/power that is likely going to be locked behind a template ("only shield-bearers can do this") or more likely, require a gating advantage (Only folks with Weapon Master (Shield) can do this).

If it's something that is possible but really hard, it becomes (under the hood) something anyone can get, but it costs money to buy off the entire technique cost all at once. Many things that look and smell like what Martial Arts calls a technique ARE techniques, but with a binary off/on rather than sliding scale.

If it's somethign anyone can do, we look and see what it would require, and tie it to an appropriate maneuver or attack option.


For the case of buckler-gripped shields, ANYONE can pick up a shield by the handle, regardless of size. My own shield is 34.5" (88cm) in diameter - half my height - and weighs six pounds (2,720g). The most logical thing for this is a Ready maneuver: you just pick it up.

Things that are ready maneuvers are amenable to having a skill to do them more quickly. That's just Fast-Draw.

Bigger things should be harder, so we give a penalty equal to the DB of the shield. For most folks, that won't interfere with anything. Giving larger penalties such as the -4 per yard of reach weapons get in CC, or twice the DB of the shield, to turn a defense to offense basis, would make it -6 for a DB 3 shield, which would make your typical Skill-14 skilled adventurer only be able to pull DB 2 off one time in two, and DB 3 one time in four.

With larger shields and guiges, we watched videos of folks in full kit doing this and came to the same conclusion: a proper strap and handle should allow a fast-draw attempt, which represents being able to do this smoothly enough that it doesn't interfere with your other move (which in the cases we looked at, were mostly shifting grips on weapons from 2 hands to 1 while simultaneously bringing a shield to bear).

For this, if you want to go the realism route, you might say you have to resolve it as a Rapid Strike (two things at once, at -6 each), or it consumes the Step part of any maneuver that allows the step (you have to shimmy a bit to bring it to the right position, but it naturally swings there).

So..."it's naturally cinematic" means that we consider reducing the friction to awesomeness in the face of folks who routinely throw down three or four attacks per second, every second, until the imaginary monster-beast-foes are all dead.

[Edited to Add: I reiterate that checking out Shields Up is a good idea for this issue; the book talk quite sensibly about extra Readies, reducied readying time for certain actions, etc.]

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by GURPSFredo

Would a Fast-Draw (Buckler) be a realistic skill or not?

Yes, as long as you're willing to wear your buckler on a belt hook or similar and you had a solid grip so you don't have to mess with straps.

In the late Middle Ages, they were typically worn with the straps looped over the sword's hilt as it rested in the scabbard. I can't imagine that did any good for fast-draw skill for either weapon, however.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Having done some foil-and-buckler fencing, I'm pretty dubious about the whole concept of Fast Draw:Buckler.

For gear that takes multiple seconds to ready, you could allow Fast Draw variants that reduce overall ready time by some amount (5% x margin of success seems fair). That would represent practice with "fast readying" equipment. That would allow realistic variants of Fast Draw for things like shields or machine guns.

[Plane]

Given that it's possible to hold a shield in an unreadied state (this happens on a critically failed block, for example) I think maybe "I ready the shield I am holding" and "I remove the shield from my belt" ought to be distinct subsequent maneuvers, so one really ought to need two fast draw skills (or at least a -2 penalty for doing two things?) to cover both aspects.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

Given that it's possible to hold a shield in an unreadied state (this happens on a critically failed block, for example) I think maybe "I ready the shield I am holding" and "I remove the shield from my belt" ought to be distinct subsequent maneuvers, so one really ought to need two fast draw skills (or at least a -2 penalty for doing two things?) to cover both aspects.

It's also possible to hold a weapon in an unready state - it's similarly a possible Critical Failure result - but weapons don't require multiple rolls to draw and Ready. I see no reason to treat a buckler differently. A shield that straps on, sure, that's a different story - but a buckler is just a hand weapon that happens to be a lot wider than most. The difficulty with Fast-Drawing larger bucklers is more just the consequences of it being difficult to find a place where you can comfortably stow such and leave it ready for a Fast-Draw, due to it having inconvenient dimensions.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

It's also possible to hold a weapon in an unready state - it's similarly a possible Critical Failure result - but weapons don't require multiple rolls to draw and Ready. I see no reason to treat a buckler differently.

Maybe the solution is also to get grittier with weapon quick draws? I think there's already penalties for odd quickdraws on MA103-104 (Odd Positions, though the ) which might be extrapolated to shields too.

We know there's for example a DX roll to reach a weapon preceding a fast-draw roll when 'in close combat' which seems to get handwaived if nobody's in C-range with you, but we could possibly have more complex rules for this.

For example - if you're a pirate w/ parrot on your shoulder, that parrot is technically grappling you, but not in a way intended to impede your arm (shoulder is prob more like torso) plus their size and placement makes them less likely to accidentally get in the way of your actions than a full-size human sharing your hex.

104's zero-penalties in ideal situations seem to imply that large weapons, for all their extra bulk, are just as easy to fast-draw, perhaps because they're higher size modifier and easier to pinpoint?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Plane

Maybe the solution is also to get grittier with weapon quick draws?

The solution to what? What is the problem that is being solved, here? Provided it can be positioned such that the handle is readily-grabbable, a buckler should be eligible to be drawn quickly. In fact, it shouldn't be any more difficult than drawing any other weapon quickly. The only issue is that rather-large bucklers are difficult to carry on your person in a fashion that leaves the handle readily-grabbable. Making it harder to Fast-Draw everything isn't really going to help with that.