In Gurps, how powerful do you need to fight a tank?

[Anaraxes]

You'll want GURPS Supers, p. 123 ("Man versus Machine").

Originally Posted by Bathawk

bending cannon barrels

All else being equal, a hollow tube is stronger against bending than a solid bar of the same mass. It's also weaker than a solid bar of the same diameter. Here's a calculator if you really want to do the math.

Looking at a picture of an M1 Abrams 120mm gun bore, it looks like the wall thickness is around 15% of the outside diameter of the gun. Risking a bit of math this late at night, looks like a force of about 400,000 pounds to bend steel with your hands 36" apart. That's ST 500, or 400 with vanilla Extra Effort, or a mere +14 ST (Super-Effort) if you're using those rules.

tearing turrets off

A modern tank turret weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3 the weight of the entire tank. Typically nothing significant attaches the turret to the hull other than the turret's own weight. If you're strong enough to lift that ~20 ton weight, there's no additional "tearing" necessary. Grab it and fly away.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

A modern tank turret weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3 the weight of the entire tank. Typically nothing significant attaches the turret to the hull other than the turret's own weight. If you're strong enough to lift that ~20 ton weight, there's no additional "tearing" necessary. Grab it and fly away.

Or toss it on top of another tank's turret, as I had Stalina do.

[Bathawk]

Oh an additional thought or two...

What about prying the hatch open/off?

And I don't think you need to "explode" a tank to "kill" it right? If a punch is hard enough to cause a serious dent or hole in the vehicle wouldn't the kinetic impact cause a "kinetic kill" effect on the occupants? Or cause enough "internal injury" to the tanks mechanisms?

(Would also ask about HESH type attacks, but think that's a bit baroque for a supers campaign)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

Oh an additional thought or two...

What about prying the hatch open/off?

And I don't think you need to "explode" a tank to "kill" it right? If a punch is hard enough to cause a serious dent or hole in the vehicle wouldn't the kinetic impact cause a "kinetic kill" effect on the occupants? Or cause enough "internal injury" to the tanks mechanisms?

(Would also ask about HESH type attacks, but think that's a bit baroque for a supers campaign)

No, HESH causes "spalling" and that's what you were asking about in the previous paragraph. Gurps has rules for HESH and you could reasonably treat a super-punch like a HESH warhead of the same raw damage.

Tearing the hatch off uses the same mechanics as bending the barrel and obviously the hatch or the latch holding it closed is nowhere near as strong as the barrel.

[PTTG]

While more than a bit of a crock, don't forget you could get up to [-80%] for "Limitation: Only defends from/harms one specific tank."

Generally having an ability which only can be used against tanks in general is not likely to be worth more than -10% in a campaign where you fight a lot of tanks, but might be worth a bit more in a campaign where you live in classical Rome at the height of the Republic.

[Bathawk]

Originally Posted by PTTG

While more than a bit of a crock, don't forget you could get up to [-80%] for "Limitation: Only defends from/harms one specific tank."

Generally having an ability which only can be used against tanks in general is not likely to be worth more than -10% in a campaign where you fight a lot of tanks, but might be worth a bit more in a campaign where you live in classical Rome at the height of the Republic.

That reminds me of a character form the "godlike" rpg. a nazi named "Herakles". He had assumed he was a super strong brick, but his super strength was only for destroying things (punching, kicking, biting ect;)....and is invulnerability was only to tanks. whether it was a cannon, being machine gunned, run over, or a tank falling on him from a cliff.

I always wondered, because in WW II DR/Damage reduction "only to tanks" would be -40%, but in peace time it would have to be at least -80%. I can't even remember the last time I saw a tank in real life, much less been threatened by one (wonder if his charcater would get a rebate on points post war)

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

I always wondered, because in WW II DR/Damage reduction "only to tanks" would be -40%, but in peace time it would have to be at least -80%. I can't even remember the last time I saw a tank in real life, much less been threatened by one (wonder if his charcater would get a rebate on points post war)

Maybe I'm just not getting it... but tanks seem both more and less common IRL than how Bathawk's statement reads. Well, that or my dubious understanding of GURPS is at work again, so I'm going to risk sharing my own take on this.

Unless we're in a setting where nearly all warfare is restricted to tanks, anything with "versus tanks" seems more niche than -40% indicates. I mean, even if you successfully keep it secret (Secret?) that your Damage Resistance only applies against attacks made by (or perhaps even from) tanks, you've got everything else on the battlefield to worry about. Or are tanks really that heavily present on the battlefield?

Okay, so what is the "more common" part? If we invert things, and your DR is against everything except tanks, once again you'll need to keep it secret (Secret?) because tanks aren't that far away in (for example) the United States of America. Well, in the American Midwest, anyway. We're not a war zone [insert sports joke here/], but there are a lot of military bases (outposts? Depots? Not sure what all to call them) here. I mean, most of them aren't the Army or Marines, but the Army Reserve or the National Guard... but that's enough for this to be a big issue. At least, once this gap in your defenses is known. Yeah, getting the tanks to where you (your tank-vulnerable character) are before you can flee is a nightmare, between getting authorization for the tanks and transporting them... but sooner or later, your character is probably getting shot by a tank. Barring an amazing dodge or other mitigating circumstances.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

And I don't think you need to "explode" a tank to "kill" it right? If a punch is hard enough to cause a serious dent or hole in the vehicle wouldn't the kinetic impact cause a "kinetic kill" effect on the occupants? Or cause enough "internal injury" to the tanks mechanisms?

It's hard to say for sure but I really doubt it unless your punch literally hurls the tank. There's not a convincing mechanism I can see to cause damage to the crew or machinery based on a distant, narrow impact. (Except spalling, to some extent.)

Side note: flipping a tank over is likely much easier than punching through its armor.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

Oh an additional thought or two...

What about prying the hatch open/off?

The problem there would be getting leverage - tank hatches don't generally have much you could grab onto or get your fingers under, though some have sights mounted through them, and smashing your hand into the sight would give you something to grip (either the sight or the hole it was mounted in). Pulling it off once you have a grip would be like ripping off any other solidly secured door/hatch.

[DeadParrot]

If your Superhero can fly or leap long distances, attack the relatively lightly armored top turret or engine compartment. That was the basic concept of the A10 Warthog aircraft. A few 30mm depleted uranium rounds rattling around inside the crew compartment renders the crew to goo and might cook off the ordnance or fuel. No need to reduce the HP to zero.

Substitute a superhero quality javelin in place of the 30mm gun and your SH doesn't even have to get near the tank.

Bonus of the air attack is most tank main guns can't elevate enough to be effective AA weapons.

A well prepared tank crew might have liberated some Stinger type AA missiles and attached them to the turret as ad-hoc SH defense.