How to avoid killing your player characters as GM

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by hal

Is it in the rules that a living tree will stop 26 hit points?

This is one of those things I don't bother checking rules over (unless I really desire gritty consistency for some reason), but would simply rule "it does". Unless it's a game where shooting through things was supposed to be viable and encouraged... but I tend towards highly cinematic Action! so even couches are proof versus small arms (yes holes will get 'blown through" dramatically to represent it's a bad place to hide from firearms, but the PCs can get a turn or three of cover out of most household furniture in my games).

For all others who want to chime in - how do YOU keep your player characters alive in a modern or future campaign?

I don't know. Honestly I suspect I've had a lot of luck, but I also tend to tune encounters to the "needs of the scene" on the fly. I don't fudge rolls, I roll in the open, but as Outlaw mentions; if I had an encounter setup at one "power level" and the PCs do something to shift the power balance on their side for the weaker, I'll tone it down as it enfolds. Skills on NPCs might drop, weapons might be scaled back, HPs reduced, or even rules of engagement shifted (from "Kill On Sight" to "Capture" or even "Drive Off") as suits the needs of the outcome I'm halfway aiming for. I say halfway, because no scene survives contact with the PCs so I never really bother to 'script the endings'. Like I'll have an idea of where it could/should go, but Players will be Players and dice will fall as they may.

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

A non-trivial component of this is players keeping themselves from getting killed. They build characters who can figure out the battlefield and use conditions to their advantage with skills like Tactics, Observation, and Stealth.

I wish that were always the case. I've had Players deliberately design absolutely combat useless PCs in a game where combat was going to see scene time on the regular. Usually it was with the understanding of the other Players that "I'm hyper-focused in this non-combat niche, you guys cover the combat", and I always have one or two gung-ho combat spotlight hogs, so it usually works out.

How do I handle said PC when they fall into the meat grinder as they always do? Intelligent enemies usually aim to capture, not kill non-dangerous PCs (and other NPCs). Otherwise I just try to let the PCs handle themselves and sometimes, well, sometimes the dice have the non-combatant PC fall. Usually unconscious, sometimes maimed and dying. But I try to steer the absolute 'bastard' enemies (Bloodlust, Eats Downed Foes, etc) into the scrum and try to have them avoid mixing it up with a non-combat PC. Which usually works as most non-combat types aim to be 'less dangerous and threatening looking' which usually steers that sort of danger away from them.

Lights, camera: ...cinematic options. Most players...well, a lot of players...OK, people like me don't really want realistic games. We want action-adventure-movie games. So cinematic options in the rules are generally on the table.

Yup, I roll with Impulse Points, Mooks, B.A.D., high powered PCs (200+ points), the works. I roll with deadly weapons, but having the above means the PCs almost always have options to mitigate the danger to themselves if things really go sideways on them.

But even with all that on, sometimes a PC dies. It happens, they make a new Character and we move on. Learning to lose a Character gracefully is a skill I think all Players should master.

Originally Posted by Witchking

Who the heck wants to have a fair fight?

Beware Vows and Codes of Honor. This can force the PCs into situations highly unfavorable to themselves, be prepared for this.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Players will always find a way to be stupid no matter how much you try to prevent it.

I prefer to think of this as "Players are never as properly informed as their Characters and will often make rash choices".

Not Properly Informed? Outside of combat with the Player's gods eye omniscient moment to moment view of a battle map, most PCs roll into a situation lacking an awful lot of info. And if you do 'theatre of the mind' for combat, they don't even have that 'god's eye view' or 'omniscience' because I've never met a GM who could completely describe things as well as a battle map can. So think about that the next time you start a social scene, you aren't providing a 'battle map' to cover the 'thousand words' that a picture can bring. So consider this when it looks like your Players are making some ludicrously simple and obvious (to you) mistake; they simply do not know everything you do. Maybe rectify that? Toss them a few Skill (Savoir Faire, Streetwise, Tactics, Diplomacy, Detect Lies, etc) or Attribute (IQ or Per are usually good) rolls to spot where things are maybe going awry. Or if it looks like they just forgot something that they should have remembered, remind them. If you have no idea why the PCs are taking a hard left into "deliberately ******* off the Mafia Don", pause and ask them. Sometimes they've got a "brilliant" (read dumb) plan and this is the row/hill they wish to hoe/die on. But they'll go into it knowing what they're doing.

And sometimes they really do have a brilliant (read ludicrous) plan that might work. Roll with it.

[sir_pudding]

Cover DR is based on HP and estimating a tree's HP is pretty easy. Average adult pine is 5,000 lbs and Homogeneous so 137 HP and it probably has DR 1, so Cover DR is 36.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

Beware Vows and Codes of Honor. This can force the PCs into situations highly unfavorable to themselves, be prepared for this.

I have done some Vows and COHs. I just don't choose those (other that an early 1st Ed character who have Vow: Cannot Kill by Action/Inaction etc, SOD: All Humanity and a third which I don't remember but was a not easy 10 pts.). I played him for quite a while. Obviously it was a different mindset. Although if I could 'cheat' to disable them and therefore save their life BINGO!

Other than my first GURPS PC (1986) written with the playtest rules as First Edition hadn't reached local stores yet; I have never played 'just a brick' in GURPS.

There are too many things that can be done on the side with just a few points...

My characters tend to start with 'combat capable plus X and Y.'

After the straight jacket of early 80's class and level I found point buy and skill, went broad and seldom looked back.

YMMV and the fun is what matters...

[Witchking]

deleted dupe

[sjmdw45]

Originally Posted by hal

Hi All,
Without saying who or why, I thought it might be best to open up this topic and inviting veteran players and/or GMs to offer ways on using the GURPS rules as written, to avoid killing off player characters

Run practice fights with them to develop their and your tactical intuition and toolboxes. When we started playing, my DFRPG players could barely handle a single horde zombie even with three PCs; nowadays I bet they could handle a hundred. They fought six brown puddings in the second room of their first dungeon, or more precisely they ran away at top speed and never came back to that dungeon, but nowadays I bet they would crush that dungeon using the exact same PCs and gear.

Fighting, and sometimes losing, and then thinking about why you won or lost, is how you get better.

[Rhino]

I don’t worry about it. Some encounters are with opponents as tough or tougher than the PCs. I don’t tone them down and I play them according to their IQ and experience in combat. I leave it to the players to scout, evaluate the opposition and decide whether and when to flee. If they fail to attempt or succeed at those efforts, I let the dice fall where they may.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

I prefer to think of this as "Players are never as properly informed as their Characters and will often make rash choices".

Not Properly Informed? Outside of combat with the Player's gods eye omniscient moment to moment view of a battle map, most PCs roll into a situation lacking an awful lot of info. And if you do 'theatre of the mind' for combat, they don't even have that 'god's eye view' or 'omniscience' because I've never met a GM who could completely describe things as well as a battle map can. So think about that the next time you start a social scene, you aren't providing a 'battle map' to cover the 'thousand words' that a picture can bring. So consider this when it looks like your Players are making some ludicrously simple and obvious (to you) mistake; they simply do not know everything you do. Maybe rectify that? Toss them a few Skill (Savoir Faire, Streetwise, Tactics, Diplomacy, Detect Lies, etc) or Attribute (IQ or Per are usually good) rolls to spot where things are maybe going awry. Or if it looks like they just forgot something that they should have remembered, remind them. If you have no idea why the PCs are taking a hard left into "deliberately ******* off the Mafia Don", pause and ask them. Sometimes they've got a "brilliant" (read dumb) plan and this is the row/hill they wish to hoe/die on. But they'll go into it knowing what they're doing.

And sometimes they really do have a brilliant (read ludicrous) plan that might work. Roll with it.

A bit presumptuous aren't we?

Only in the rarest and most simple situations do my players not have a visual representation of their surroundings. I have stacks of inns, taverns, dwellings, shops, churches, evil temples, small cave complexes, watering holes, generic clearings, camp sites, canyons, trails, streams/river sections along with various fords, roads, bridges, village layouts (thank you T1 for the inspiration), small castles (thank you SJ Games), a 2 holer outhouse, etc dating back to 1981. When I can I include photographs or digital art as well.

More often than not there are written descriptions passed out for each encounter that ensures any "clues" are available to them. When names are dropped I always leave time for note taking if they desire and sometimes insist that they do so so I can copy them later for myself b/c I'm generally lazy.

I GM from those maps and descriptions so if they miss anything, it's on them.

When we go into "real time" mode there's a flag hanging off the GM screen to indicate such. If, during that time, they mouth off or start something stupid, once again, it's on them.

[hal]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Cover DR is based on HP and estimating a tree's HP is pretty easy. Average adult pine is 5,000 lbs and Homogeneous so 137 HP and it probably has DR 1, so Cover DR is 36.

Hmm, page 558 would disagree with that assessment. DR for "Bars, Poles, Logs, and Trees" seems to imply that an 8" diameter tree (roughly 40 year old tree it would seem) has a DR of 8, and HP of 30.

If in real life, a 7.62 mm round can penetrate 13" of wood, that implies what precisely? If DR is 8, and the bullet still can penetrate 13" of pine boards, then can that same bullet penetrate an 8" diameter log (aka tree trunk)? So clearly, there is blow through in this instance.

What we call cover DR is going to be based upon what precisely?

Take the following example. We have a 6' by 3' by 1" door made of pine. What are the door's hit points? Same door, but instead of 1" thick, it is 3" thick?

[sjmdw45]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

When we go into "real time" mode there's a flag hanging off the GM screen to indicate such.

*Yoink!*

Consider this idea stolen.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I GM from those maps and descriptions so if they miss anything, it's on them.

And in what way are those maps useful in a social encounter? Do they show the tactical situation of whom is allied with whom, who has what likes, dislikes, what might cause instant aggression in the Don?

See, I mention battle maps because we can all imagine how much tactical information is readily present, info that is usually absent from a GM's 'theatre of the mind' description of the scene. But you're not dropping a "social battle map", so 99% of what a good socializer will pick up on is missing. That's what I mean when I say "the Players will almost never have anywhere near as much information as the PCs should have, unless it's combat and you've dropped a battle map..."