[Low-Tech/Basic] Pick: War Club or Pickaxe

[Blind Mapmaker]

First off, thanks to everybody for chiming in. This is really the forum at its best.

Originally Posted by Anthony

We have evidence for the pickaxe being used by the Assyrians to break apart cities back in TL 2. They just don't seem to have much used them as weapons.

The actual weapon use picks have much shorter spikes than an agricultural pickaxe. At a guess, this is to make it strong enough to be useful against armor, and reduce the chance of getting stuck in things. [/snip]

Both seem reasonable. The old LT lists it as TL 2 and I know the Romans used them. Iron tools to slow down tool degradation seem like a signature TL 2 technology. And spike length has its limits when going after humans instead of stone.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I've spent entirely too much time using a pickaxe/mattock for gardening, breaking concrete, etc. Admittedly, non-combat uses, but enough that I have a good sense of the tool's balance, reach and heft compared to actual weapons or weapon-like objects I've used in sport melee combat.

[/snip]

What most people think of as a pickaxe is actually a pickaxe/mattock or pickaxe/adzes (depending on the exact shape of the non-pick end). It's actually what the Assyrian on the far left is using in the picture that Anthony referenced. These sorts of tools can be treated as a Warhammer which can be turned 180 degrees to do sw/cut damage like a Greataxe.

Due to duller edges/points and design optimized for all-out attacks (strong) against unsuspecting bits of rock or earth, a garden variety pickaxe or pickaxe/mattock can be treated as Improvised (-1 to hit & damage) if you carry it into battle.

[/snip]

Thank you very much, it's always good to have some-body with first-hand knowledge of the subject. I'm leaning towards using this with the addition of cheap quality for breakage purposes and adjusting the price accordingly.

Originally Posted by mburr0003

I think there might be a mattock in one of the Horrors... but I could be wrong.

There's a mattock attached to a zombie stat block on p. 155 that has 1d+2 damage, which would mean it's based on the pick. Not my favourite reference material though.

Originally Posted by tbone

Action 5 p29 covers pickaxes. Kind of.

A pickaxe falls under Two-Handed Axe/Mace, along with felling axe, broad axe, and splitting maul. Those weapons get Weapon Table entries with TH penalties noted (none for felling axe, -3 for broad axe and splitting maul). A pickaxe is described as "clumsy" but gets no Table entry, and no TH penalty is noted.

Gosh, I always forget Action exists. Why did my search engine not find it? I guess that what happens when you use the wrong exclusion terms on your search. To hit is given as -3 in the text, which does seem a little excessive for the 8 lbs. version and Pursuivant's experience speaks against it too. Maybe I go for -2 purely for game-mechanical reasons.

Originally Posted by tbone

Suggested damage [/snip] (Those would be older damage stats from BS, not the newer sw+4 stats from Low-Tech, etc.) [/snip]

Treat a pickaxe as a combo great axe/warhammer. Stats (using more modern damage stats):

8 lb.: sw+4 cut / sw+4 imp, ST 12‡

To remove the "clumsy" penalty, pay for a pickaxe that's a proper weapon/tool combo. I don't think there's a single rule somewhere covering this. As possible models to follow, the combo axe/shovel ("combat shovel") and hand weapons that double as climbing tools (Climber's modifier) come to mind. But those are for DF/DFRPG, and aren't necessarily realistic...
[/snip]

I'll work something up with LTC2. Currently I don't have a lot of interest in the bigger versions or hand-waving stuff. I play a lot of fantasy, but with a realistic veneer. It's not for any character (yet!) - I really only went through the tables to have an easy way to input stuff in my excel character sheets.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Yes, the authors of GURPS Basic Set were probably thinking of the steel-headed warhammers with back spikes which appear in western Europe after 1400 when they created their entry for a Pick (TL 3). [/snip]

Seems like they did and I think it works fine as a horseman's one-handed weapon.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

I would give the kind of pickaxe that you use to break up earth or clay a penalty to hit (its too big and heavy, weapons for fighting have to me nimble because trees don't dodge or parry), require two hands, and give it stats similar to the Axe in GURPS Low-Tech but imp instead of cut if you strike with the spike. Maybe +1 damage for being two-handed.

I thought so at first too, but I think the others and Action 5 convinced me otherwise. Though maybe I shouldn't rely too much on that book - it is quite cinematic. I need to ruminate on this a little and make a couple of different versions.

Thanks again everybody. This has been a most useful exercise!