TFT vs. GURPS?

[DeadParrot]

Most of my group thinks of TFT as GURPS v0. One did play TFT during its initial release. The rest of us played GURPS first(V3 for me) and picked up TFT during Covid when our in person table top game went on hiatus. Roll20 was our friend plus the fact I had backed the TFT KS at the 'I want it all' level.

The similarities between the two was fairly obvious. It seems the normal growth for game systems is from simple to complex. Compare the white box D&D to later AD&D versions. Or the initial release of Traveller vs the one published today. In this light, TFT vs GURPS seems about the same increase in complexity.

TFT does seem well positioned to take advantage of the Old School Gaming movement. The big hurdle is getting people to try something other then the 6 stat, D20, high roll is good systems.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

Most of my group thinks of TFT as GURPS v0. One did play TFT during its initial release. The rest of us played GURPS first(V3 for me) and picked up TFT during Covid when our in person table top game went on hiatus. Roll20 was our friend plus the fact I had backed the TFT KS at the 'I want it all' level.

The similarities between the two was fairly obvious. It seems the normal growth for game systems is from simple to complex. Compare the white box D&D to later AD&D versions. Or the initial release of Traveller vs the one published today. In this light, TFT vs GURPS seems about the same increase in complexity.

TFT does seem well positioned to take advantage of the Old School Gaming movement. The big hurdle is getting people to try something other then the 6 stat, D20, high roll is good systems.

I should have also pointed that I had played some D&D (not as a GM) back in the early 80s. It's also my understanding that game system has been through several revisions too.

[Shostak]

GURPS certainly has its origins in TFT, but it more customizable in every respect (there are, for instance more than six different magic systems). Its combat system can be extremely granular, if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be; the rules offer many options for resolving things, so there are ways to make combat zip right along while still by playing by RAW. But if using the basic combat rules, the addition of active defenses does add a layer that isn't in TFT and thus requires an additional roll. GURPS does cut out the need for an initiative roll and determination of who moves first each turn, though, which I like.

Character generation will almost certainly take a bit longer. GURPS Advantages and Disadvantages are more nuanced than what TFT offers w/Handicaps. And GURPS gives characters more attributes than does TFT, which allows some of the of the nuance that TFT aspires to (like Fatigue being separate from ST). what TFT does with some things (like Missile Weapons and Thrown Weapons) GURPS lets you do with every skill: increase your aptitude with one type of task.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

GURPS certainly has its origins in TFT, but it more customizable in every respect (there are, for instance more than six different magic systems). Its combat system can be extremely granular, if you want it to be. But it doesn't have to be; the rules offer many options for resolving things, so there are ways to make combat zip right along while still by playing by RAW. But if using the basic combat rules, the addition of active defenses does add a layer that isn't in TFT and thus requires an additional roll. GURPS does cut out the need for an initiative roll and determination of who moves first each turn, though, which I like.

Character generation will almost certainly take a bit longer. GURPS Advantages and Disadvantages are more nuanced than what TFT offers w/Handicaps. And GURPS gives characters more attributes than does TFT, which allows some of the of the nuance that TFT aspires to (like Fatigue being separate from ST). what TFT does with some things (like Missile Weapons and Thrown Weapons) GURPS lets you do with every skill: increase your aptitude with one type of task.

So, what I'm gathering from the discussion here is that my general perspective with respect to GURPS references is correct. Thanks. I didn't want to read them incorrectly or these discussions would not be beneficial.

I can also see where GURPS may be used to fill in gaps that we run into as we play TFT. It seems that was the intent for GURPS upon its creation.

6 different magic systems has to make wizards very complicated in GURPS.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

6 different magic systems has to make wizards very complicated in GURPS.

I think the expectation is that normally only one would be chosen for any given campaign.

[hcobb]

Wouldn't Dungeon Fantasy be a closer match to ITL than full GURPS is?

[DeadParrot]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

I should have also pointed that I had played some D&D (not as a GM) back in the early 80s. It's also my understanding that game system has been through several revisions too.

I started with the white box D&D, black box Traveller and the ziplock bag Star Fleet Battles. Oddly, all were in the 5x7 booklet format. All three have since turned into rather hefty versions.

Be careful about adding too many features to your TFT games in search of 'realism'. A Pathfinder 1 game I am in has the PCs at level 20. Combats can take 1 hour per melee round(TFT turn). My play time per round is about 3 minutes. (Too many things can summon other things and Poof, you have 20+ high level things wandering around). I have found myself thinking back to the much faster speed of that Roll20 TFT game.

For our TFT game, we did run separate HP and Fatigue tracks. Another house rule was each wound is separately treatable by a Physicker. IIRC, that one was in one of the early Hexagrams. Both allow much faster recovery after a combat and avoid days of recovery rest after each fight.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

I started with the white box D&D, black box Traveller and the ziplock bag Star Fleet Battles. Oddly, all were in the 5x7 booklet format. All three have since turned into rather hefty versions.

Be careful about adding too many features to your TFT games in search of 'realism'. A Pathfinder 1 game I am in has the PCs at level 20. Combats can take 1 hour per melee round(TFT turn). My play time per round is about 3 minutes. (Too many things can summon other things and Poof, you have 20+ high level things wandering around). I have found myself thinking back to the much faster speed of that Roll20 TFT game.

For our TFT game, we did run separate HP and Fatigue tracks. Another house rule was each wound is separately treatable by a Physicker. IIRC, that one was in one of the early Hexagrams. Both allow much faster recovery after a combat and avoid days of recovery rest after each fight.

I do back off of trying to make things realistic unless what I see is absolutely wrong. Like the Unarmed Combat 1 RAW that says all abilities are lost by simply having something in their hands.

I'm not out to rewrite the game via house rules. I strive to minimize them by working within the current RAW structure. I strive to tweak what is there and not rewrite it. I want my house rules to fit on a page or two. If you are writing books of house rules, then you have created a different game. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want but it's no longer TFT. It's just a new game that resembles TFT.

[timm meyers]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

I do back off of trying to make things realistic unless what I see is absolutely wrong. Like the Unarmed Combat 1 RAW that says all abilities are lost by simply having something in their hands.

I'm not out to rewrite the game via house rules. I strive to minimize them by working within the current RAW structure. I strive to tweak what is there and not rewrite it. I want my house rules to fit on a page or two. If you are writing books of house rules, then you have created a different game. Nothing wrong with that if that is what you want but it's no longer TFT. It's just a new game that resembles TFT.

100% agree with the dangers of house rules. Too many and it is a new game. I think the rule of 5 can be applied to this situation.

"If you insert more than 5 changes to RAW you are no longer playing TFT" :)

[DeadParrot]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

I do back off of trying to make things realistic unless what I see is absolutely wrong. Like the Unarmed Combat 1 RAW that says all abilities are lost by simply having something in their hands.
.......

Agree. I like the Pathfinder 1 description under the Monk class for the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. "A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full...." Treat UC1+ similar to the monk feat and it should work just fine.

Besides, the cinematic effect of a tavern maid with UC3 laying out a patron with a roundhouse kick after he gave her a butt grope while she was walking past with 4 drinks in hand is too good to pass up. And she didn't spill a drop.

If the players are staying engaged in the game and having fun, you are doings things correctly. Don't be in a hurry to change much.