The M.U.T.A.N.T.

swordtart · 01-26-2023, 04:23 AM

Last one - promise.

I found an animation of what the walker would look like at various speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhJ5sc2a_U

As you can see 60 KMPH (the stated maximum speed of the "donor vehicle") looks pretty silly. This is less than 40 MPH.

Whether a vehicle that has a top speed of less than 40 MPH is going to be any use in a CW scenario is open to question as it could be so easily avoided, it might as well be a static bunker (and then how it gets to the battle is irrelevant)

juris · 01-26-2023, 01:09 PM

Walkers are a terrible idea - a vehicle that can trip, which apparently causes them to explode lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordtart

Last one - promise.

I found an animation of what the walker would look like at various speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhJ5sc2a_U

As you can see 60 KMPH (the stated maximum speed of the "donor vehicle") looks pretty silly. This is less than 40 MPH.

Whether a vehicle that has a top speed of less than 40 MPH is going to be any use in a CW scenario is open to question as it could be so easily avoided, it might as well be a static bunker (and then how it gets to the battle is irrelevant)

43Supporter · 01-26-2023, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juris

Walkers are a terrible idea - a vehicle that can trip, which apparently causes them to explode lol

Never played _Battletech_, have you? .:)

['Mech fails Piloting roll; falls; takes internal damage to ammo bay; KABOOM!]

If I can ever find my "walker" rules for _CW_ again....

swordtart · 01-27-2023, 02:37 AM

To be fair, the classic Star Wars vision of the quad walker is a function of plot.

"So guys, we need something that is terrifying and looks menacing so it's big and ponderous but unstoppable.

George, makes great sense, it's sufficiently slow that the Rebels have time to evacuate as long as they abandon all that valuable war materiel and so powerful the rebels have no way of stopping it and it ultimately devastates the rebel base? Cool we can work with that - Robot War Elephants Yay!

OK George we're ready.

Great guys. Now how do the rebels destroy them?

Eh?

Yeah, I need Luke to lead out a sortie in obviously inferior craft, kill most of them and preferably destroy at least one of them in single combat to establish his heroic chops!

WHAT!!!! - right I am off to the pub!

Wait guys, I also have a great idea for a goofball alien bunny rabbit."

Anything capable of moving legs that large isn't going to be stopped with what is equivalent to dental floss. Also unless it is self constricting at no point are all the legs so close together that you would lose the freedom of movement.

Why did the rebels even decide to fit harpoons to snow speeders anyway? If we had a quick cut scene where they discussed the tactic and fitted the harpoons after they spotted the walkers (or beforehand as it was an obvious Imperial tactic - the guy with the electrobinoculars didn't seem that surprised, more resigned) it would be one thing, but it seems the harpoons are fitted by default and it's only a last minute brain wave that leads to the rebels trying the tactic.

The grapnel ascent and cutting open a hatch isn't so bad as troops inside might use those hatches to rappel down when assaulting and we know light sabres are better than most things at cutting. Sneak up to a bunker toss in a grenade, yep that has precedence.

They don't have force fields and the armour has to be thinner in some places than others and at the joints makes sense, but clearly the under body armour would be resilient enough to defeat the infantry weapons the Empire has to face. The upper armour would be able to resist small aircraft weaponry. That articulated neck section might need thinner armour, but than you would ensure there was nothing vulnerable in there, not a power generator (or whatever the heck it was that blew up). So even if they tripped (and you would expect there to be safety lock-outs if a leg was impeded from moving) they should be able to kneel back up at least.

As they were already in effective range of the base they could have just stopped, it's not like they needed to move to dodge the speeders, they could have just operated as self-propelled guns. They would have moved into range, deployed their infantry as a force protection and just bombarded the base. Then those speeders could have flown round them all day long being ineffective. Heck if they had gone hull down once the troops had disembarked they could have protected all that vulnerable under armour at the price of loosing a little range.

None of these are design constraints, they were written in to achieve a plot goal. MUTANT doesn't need to pander to those :)

HeatDeath · 01-27-2023, 12:40 PM

The Battle of Hoth is basically Ogre with a coat of white paint on everything anyways. :p

[Check the dates they were made.]

HeatDeath · 01-27-2023, 12:45 PM

Have your kid try binding your ankles with 4-5 turns of dental floss. [Most families will contain at least one child who will enthusiastically undertake this project, I suspect.]

Breaking it'll be harder than you expect, and will require explosive motion available to mammalian leg muscles but not to the actuators the Empire used in those leg mechanisms.

swordtart · 01-27-2023, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatDeath

Have your kid try binding your ankles with 4-5 turns of dental floss. [Most families will contain at least one child who will enthusiastically undertake this project, I suspect.]

Breaking it'll be harder than you expect, and will require explosive motion available to mammalian leg muscles but not to the actuators the Empire used in those leg mechanisms.

Possibly, but as long as I don't stand with my legs together I suspect I'll just be able to step out of it once they have finished. If I keep moving while they are running around me I suspect I'll be snapping a few strands at a time and they'll be dizzy and puking long before they have enough turns round me to make me fall down :)

I love the films, I love the setting and the stories, but I get less and less forgiving of the storytelling.

43Supporter · 01-27-2023, 03:07 PM

And this is why "The Battle Of Hoth As It Should Have Been" occasionally gets trotted out at cons -- _Lambda_ Shuttles and TIE Bombers escorted by TIE Fighters, vs. X-Wings and Y-Wings.

"That armor's too strong for blasters... roll a couple Y-Wings with Proton Torpedoes."

[*BOOM*!] [*BOOM*!] [*BOOM*!] [*BOOM*!] [*BOOM*!]

"Well, *that* was quick...."

01-26-2023, 04:23 AM	#1
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: The M.U.T.A.N.T. Last one - promise. I found an animation of what the walker would look like at various speeds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKhJ5sc2a_U As you can see 60 KMPH (the stated maximum speed of the "donor vehicle") looks pretty silly. This is less than 40 MPH. Whether a vehicle that has a top speed of less than 40 MPH is going to be any use in a CW scenario is open to question as it could be so easily avoided, it might as well be a static bunker (and then how it gets to the battle is irrelevant)

01-27-2023, 02:37 AM	#4
swordtart Join Date: Jun 2008	Re: The M.U.T.A.N.T. To be fair, the classic Star Wars vision of the quad walker is a function of plot. "So guys, we need something that is terrifying and looks menacing so it's big and ponderous but unstoppable. George, makes great sense, it's sufficiently slow that the Rebels have time to evacuate as long as they abandon all that valuable war materiel and so powerful the rebels have no way of stopping it and it ultimately devastates the rebel base? Cool we can work with that - Robot War Elephants Yay! OK George we're ready. Great guys. Now how do the rebels destroy them? Eh? Yeah, I need Luke to lead out a sortie in obviously inferior craft, kill most of them and preferably destroy at least one of them in single combat to establish his heroic chops! WHAT!!!! - right I am off to the pub! Wait guys, I also have a great idea for a goofball alien bunny rabbit." Anything capable of moving legs that large isn't going to be stopped with what is equivalent to dental floss. Also unless it is self constricting at no point are all the legs so close together that you would lose the freedom of movement. Why did the rebels even decide to fit harpoons to snow speeders anyway? If we had a quick cut scene where they discussed the tactic and fitted the harpoons after they spotted the walkers (or beforehand as it was an obvious Imperial tactic - the guy with the electrobinoculars didn't seem that surprised, more resigned) it would be one thing, but it seems the harpoons are fitted by default and it's only a last minute brain wave that leads to the rebels trying the tactic. The grapnel ascent and cutting open a hatch isn't so bad as troops inside might use those hatches to rappel down when assaulting and we know light sabres are better than most things at cutting. Sneak up to a bunker toss in a grenade, yep that has precedence. They don't have force fields and the armour has to be thinner in some places than others and at the joints makes sense, but clearly the under body armour would be resilient enough to defeat the infantry weapons the Empire has to face. The upper armour would be able to resist small aircraft weaponry. That articulated neck section might need thinner armour, but than you would ensure there was nothing vulnerable in there, not a power generator (or whatever the heck it was that blew up). So even if they tripped (and you would expect there to be safety lock-outs if a leg was impeded from moving) they should be able to kneel back up at least. As they were already in effective range of the base they could have just stopped, it's not like they needed to move to dodge the speeders, they could have just operated as self-propelled guns. They would have moved into range, deployed their infantry as a force protection and just bombarded the base. Then those speeders could have flown round them all day long being ineffective. Heck if they had gone hull down once the troops had disembarked they could have protected all that vulnerable under armour at the price of loosing a little range. None of these are design constraints, they were written in to achieve a plot goal. MUTANT doesn't need to pander to those :) Last edited by swordtart; 01-27-2023 at 02:46 AM.

01-27-2023, 12:40 PM	#5
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: The M.U.T.A.N.T. The Battle of Hoth is basically Ogre with a coat of white paint on everything anyways. :p [Check the dates they were made.]

01-27-2023, 12:45 PM	#6
HeatDeath Join Date: May 2012	Re: The M.U.T.A.N.T. Have your kid try binding your ankles with 4-5 turns of dental floss. [Most families will contain at least one child who will enthusiastically undertake this project, I suspect.] Breaking it'll be harder than you expect, and will require explosive motion available to mammalian leg muscles but not to the actuators the Empire used in those leg mechanisms.

01-27-2023, 03:07 PM	#8
43Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: The M.U.T.A.N.T. And this is why "The Battle Of Hoth As It Should Have Been" occasionally gets trotted out at cons -- _Lambda_ Shuttles and TIE Bombers escorted by TIE Fighters, vs. X-Wings and Y-Wings. "That armor's too strong for blasters... roll a couple Y-Wings with Proton Torpedoes." [BOOM!] [BOOM!] [BOOM!] [BOOM!] [BOOM!] "Well, that was quick...." __________________ "Dale who?" 79er The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course: 1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.