Friends, Hirelings, and Side-Kicks

[sjmdw45]

Originally Posted by restlessgriffin

Why? Thieves mostly detect traps and disarm them, pick locks and open doors, sneak past sentries and backstab enemies. How do Bards, Clerics, and Druids replace these functions typically performed by thieves.

Trap detection is based on Per, so e.g. a druid with one Quirk point in Traps plus a nice Keen (Sight) +5 spell from a bard or wizard detects at Traps-18, better than a Thief normally does (Per 14 +1 = Traps-15). Moreover the druid can do it all REMOTELY via Rider Within on a created animal or one controlled via Control Animal.

Trap-disarming (DX-based) and trap-creating (IQ-based) tend to be less important (e.g. avoid the trap or have a monkey or a wizard with Apportation set it off), but druids/bards/clerics/wizards are all good at trap creation anyway due to high IQ. Lockpicking and trap disarming can go on any high-DX character (Swashbucklers excel at important lockpicking due to Luck).

Sneaking past sentries: druids are best (Create Animal + Rider Within), bards are good (Stealth + Hush spell, or just Loyalty), clerics are not good. (Wizards with Wizard Eye or illusions with Initiative are even better than druids unless it's necessary to physically interact, e.g. open doors.)

Backstabbing enemies is just a subset of killing enemies, which almost anyone can do. E.g. an Elven Bard with Resist Sound on friendlies throws a Concussion and then uses Song of Humiliation to stun whoever made their HT-3 roll; or a druid's conjured wolves rip an enemy to shreds with All Out Attack (double); or a cleric invests enough in Innate Attack to reliably hit enemies in the face/skull with 2d6 Sun Bolt for 1 FP. And it's not like they can't do these things from a backstab--the elven bard in particular can succeed on a backstab roll most of the time, but maybe won't want to because backstabbing puts you in the middle of the enemies and leaves you vulnerable to being surrounded. But backstabbing isn't even restricted to thieves.

Anyway, in the context of this thread, Leadership and clerics is a good fit. (Ditto Tactics.)

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by restlessgriffin

Why? Thieves mostly detect traps and disarm them, pick locks and open doors, sneak past sentries and backstab enemies. How do Bards, Clerics, and Druids replace these functions typically performed by thieves.

sjmdw45 does a great job of answering this in depth, but simply: High IQ characters replace half of what a Thief does and a high HP one replaces the other half.

Or just Barbarian it all (even sneaking, it's an average skill based on DX which Barbarian usually have at least 13 in).

Originally Posted by sjmdw45

... a monkey ...

Whoa! We call them Barbarians now sir. Or easily tricked Hireling...

Backstabbing enemies is just a subset of killing enemies, which almost anyone can do.

Yup, everyone but Thiefs...

[Expy]

I've never been able to play as a PC in this system but I've always wanted to run a more social/leadership Knight. Lots of BWL talent, bit of appearance.

Two extra levels of Born War Leader and Attractive gives a total +6 on the initial roll to determine Loyalty for any fighter type, assuming you win the Leadership check for the extra +1. The IQ roll to find hirelings will be tough but other party members can lend complimentary rolls to help you, and you can roll Carousing or something to give yourself a bit of a buff also.

For combat, I think its best to leave the GM controlling but let the player decide how to train their hirelings to act. Then, if you want them to act outside their programming so to speak, you take a Do Nothing manoeuvre and make a Leadership check to give new orders. 62 pointers I'd expect to be treated like fodder, no complex turns; 125 can maybe throw something in now and then.

You could allow players to control hirelings/allies and tax them CP if they abuse that control (poor roleplaying), or step in if they're doing something out of character. I've never done it that way, but I've also never had a player wanting hordes of hired help. They way I saw it recommended that seemed interesting was player B controls Player A's minions and vice versa.