[Psionics] Why do Mental Stab 1 and 2 have Malediction?

[VIVIT]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

So what's the appropriate modifier for a malediction with no range that can be dodged but will continue until you finally touch your victim?

That sounds more like an Aura than like a Malediction.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

That sounds more like an Aura than like a Malediction.

Not even remotely. Remember it still has to be a contested roll and it isn't defensive.

[VIVIT]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Not even remotely. Remember it still has to be a contested roll and it isn't defensive.

It sounds more like Aura than Malediction. Maledictions are used at range and don't require an attack roll. I compared it to an Aura because Malediction-but-it-activates-when-you-hit-with-a-melee-attack is no more a Malediction than Malediction-but-it-isn't-contested. If you are trying to argue that this should be a Malediction because that's the closest thing, that's a poor excuse, especially given that Psionic Powers was already taking the liberty of introducing new variants of existing modifiers. Off-label uses of modifiers, especially powerful ones like Malediction, leads to borked costs.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

It sounds more like Aura than Malediction. Maledictions are used at range and don't require an attack roll.

It is like a Malediction in that it's a contested roll and it's unaffected by DR, What's the way in which it's like an Aura?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It is like a Malediction in that it's a contested roll and it's unaffected by DR, What's the way in which it's like an Aura?

This ability takes a second of prep, then a touch (roll to attack) that could be dodged, followed by a contest to do damage? Seems like the worst of both worlds. I'd either turn it into a proper malediction (with extra time if it needs a windup period) or a proper touch attack that doesn't have a contest.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by naloth

This ability takes a second of prep, then a touch (roll to attack) that could be dodged, followed by a contest to do damage? Seems like the worst of both worlds. I'd either turn it into a proper malediction (with extra time if it needs a windup period) or a proper touch attack that doesn't have a contest.

Turning it into a "proper" malediction is the third level.

[VIVIT]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It is like a Malediction in that it's a contested roll and it's unaffected by DR,

What DR? The ability has Contact Agent! Contact Agents don't work through DR. The only thing that Mental Stab 1 has in common with Malediction is that it involves a QC (and requires a Concentrate maneuver than an attack maneuver, but I was assuming that you could roll to reach out and touch someone during that Concentrate maneuver because otherwise the ability doesn't work at all). The bulk of the enhancement value of Malediction is in the DR, and that goes right out the window here.

What's the way in which it's like an Aura?

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

So what's the appropriate modifier for a malediction with no range that can be dodged but will continue until you finally touch your victim?

I don't think that last bit is how Mental Stab 1 and 2 are supposed to work, mind you, but that does sound an awful lot like an Aura in those specific respects.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

What DR? The ability has Contact Agent! Contact Agents don't work through DR.

Well, technically it does work through tough skin DR, but that's a pretty minor category.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

What DR? The ability has Contact Agent! Contact Agents don't work through DR. The only thing that Mental Stab 1 has in common with Malediction is that it involves a QC (and requires a Concentrate maneuver than an attack maneuver, but I was assuming that you could roll to reach out and touch someone during that Concentrate maneuver because otherwise the ability doesn't work at all). The bulk of the enhancement value of Malediction is in the DR, and that goes right out the window here.

Quick contests are the fundamental distinguishing mechanic of Maledictions and the Contact Agent limitation is only on the first level.

I don't think that last bit is how Mental Stab 1 and 2 are supposed to work, mind you, but that does sound an awful lot like an Aura in those specific respects.

No, Aura doesn't work like that. Aura is a defensive field.

[Plane]

it seems like advantages which are innately ranged (like affliction or innate attack) converting to a malediction and taking melee-attack is a broader issue than just Mental Stab

We also see this preceding it on the left column for Mental Blow too

Interestingly here the "If you win a Quick Contest of skill vs. his Will, he is
stunned" similarly makes no mention of an attack roll for establishing contact.

If we're doing this it seems like you may as well take something like Requires Grapple (-10%) in addition to melee attack since you're probably going to need a means of maintaining ongoing contact to do this.

The only distinction I think RG adds is that the ongoing contact has to have been a minimum of 1 second - but since you can't use AOA(Double) to do "touch then malediction" you need that minimum of 1 second anyway - the only way around it is Compartmentalized Mind.