Reverse Missiles / not an "attack"

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

If a GM made that ruling ahead of time in 90% of games it would make absolutely no difference in my decision making,.

I'd be avoiding it because it would look like the GM didn't like PCs using it. If something bothers the GM enough for him to make House Rules about it's easier to avoid it altogether in most cases.

[Taneli]

I think we've played the crit Vs Reverse Missiles in two different ways in the past in my tables at different times: either the shooter crits themselves or the crit passes through the Reverse Missiles. Either way is fine, really, as long as you keep it consistent in the same campaign.

Moving shooter is one that we haven't had to adjudicate in my table ever, and I don't think it's likely to come up too often as GURPS defines most missile attacks as travelling in essence instantaneously. But if it came up (like shooter shooting and then simultaneously getting teleported somewhere else, or if we started to care about the missile travel time), I would be inclined as a GM to rule in favour of the players when it first comes up, and then would use that same logic against them when it comes up again and the roles are reversed... I find that this way goes better with players in general.

[Plane]

This might come down to how we read "If the attacker’s “to hit” roll is successful, he hits himself"

Does this necessarily mean contact, or just that it returns as if a successful to-hit roll happened, with all the usual countermeasures possible?

I don't know if any of the usual problems would exist though - if someone made a ranged deceptive attack (took a penalty to hit so there would be a penalty to dodge) I think maybe that ought to only penalize the original target but defenses from the new target could be unmodified.

Whatever the policy, Damage Reduction w/ Reflexive +100% should probably work the same.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Plane

This might come down to how we read "If the attacker’s “to hit” roll is successful, he hits himself" Does this necessarily mean contact, or just that it returns as if a successful to-hit roll happened, with all the usual countermeasures possible?

Barring official guidance, I'd rule the latter: the attacker inflicts a successful hit on himself, which he then can defend in the usual ways. (Reversing a bullet, given the element of surprise, I expect the usual way would equate to "Gape owlishly at the fresh hole in your chest.")

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Barring official guidance, I'd rule the latter: the attacker inflicts a successful hit on himself, which he then can defend in the usual ways. (Reversing a bullet, given the element of surprise, I expect the usual way would equate to "Gape owlishly at the fresh hole in your chest.")

If it's a gun fight on both sides, then any dodging he'd do against bullets in general would apply to his reversed bullet. But what about firing from cover?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

If it's a gun fight on both sides, then any dodging he'd do against bullets in general would apply to his reversed bullet. But what about firing from cover?

A previous poster suggested having the return missile hit a random hit location; an option here would be to do just that, and if the return missile rolls a hit location that is behind cover, it strikes the cover first (which will typically mean it strikes the cover instead, unless the character is using cover that his/her own weapon will reliably penetrate). Or you can assume the spell will only "target" those hit locations that are exposed... or even that it ignores cover. That would all be up to the GM, of course. My personal inclination would be to just use the "random hit location" option.

Of course, if using the rules from Tactical Shooting, a lot of the time the shooter won't get a defense against a return missile - not because it's a surprise, but because the shooter will have used All Out Attack in order to take advantage of any Aiming done in the previous round(s). For a modern-ish battlefield where Reverse Missiles are potentially in play, I could see weapon systems like the Cornershot being rather popular.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

(Reversing a bullet, given the element of surprise, I expect the usual way would equate to "Gape owlishly at the fresh hole in your chest.")

That's what happened the only time I've been in that situation in a game. It was a rifle bullet within 1/2D range, which took me to just above the first death check, so making the HT roll next turn to shout a warning was quite important.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

If it's a gun fight on both sides, then any dodging he'd do against bullets in general would apply to his reversed bullet. But what about firing from cover?

I was firing from the prone position, with no indication that the target was aware of me, or had special defences. No dodge attempted; I may have used All-Out Attack for the +1, since it was pretty dark.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by johndallman

That's what happened the only time I've been in that situation in a game. It was a rifle bullet within 1/2D range, which took me to just above the first death check, so making the HT roll next turn to shout a warning was quite important.

I was firing from the prone position, with no indication that the target was aware of me, or had special defences. No dodge attempted; I may have used All-Out Attack for the +1, since it was pretty dark.

Sounds about the way I would play it. Reverse Missiles Golden Rule, 'You get what you give'.

Bravo on warning your group. Reverse Missiles then just became an expensive Missile Shield.

[Rupert]

The one time I've had Reverse Missiles in play, the party was fighting a dragon, so they pulled out their major firepower - Martini-Henry rifles in .450.

As the shooters had god-like Guns skills, and the rest of their gear, including armour, was TL3/4, the first shooter got a nasty surprise (a smashed up arm, as I recall).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Barring official guidance, I'd rule the latter: the attacker inflicts a successful hit on himself, which he then can defend in the usual ways. (Reversing a bullet, given the element of surprise, I expect the usual way would equate to "Gape owlishly at the fresh hole in your chest.")

makes me wonder what would happen if there was a pair of mages both w/ Reverse Missiles shooting at each other

That kind of dilemma could exist with a pair of 'Reflective DR' foes shooting at each other too.