Modifying Melee Weapon: How to make a melee weapon with a telescoping handle?

[smin32]

Originally Posted by Varyon

In GURPS: Martial Arts, on page 218, is an option called Trick Weapons. This is meant to represent things like retractable sword blades, but I think using it for a retractable handle would work fine. That gives a +2 to Holdout, which implies that it cuts the length of the weapon in half (+2 to Holdout would correspond to -2 to SM, which means half size) while retracted, and is +50% to cost - or +0.5 CF, using that system.

So, I would say you could design the weapon at its full length, apply a +0.5 CF to cut the length in half, another +0.5 CF to cut the length in half again, and so forth, until you reach the minimum size of the weapon. Realistically, the weapon should probably count as Cheap for breakage purposes, but in a Fantasy setting with a lot of magic, you can probably ignore that.

For example, let's say we want a staff that can be anywhere from 1 yard long (a baton) to 64 yards long. Based on the statistics of staves of various sizes, I would say that 1.5 lb and $5 per yard of staff is probably about right. So, a 64 yard staff would weigh 96 lb and cost $320. It can be reduced to half length up to 6 times (64->32->16->8->4->2->1), for a total of +300% or +3 CF (x4 to cost). The weapon would therefore weigh 96 lb and cost $1,280. If that's too heavy - and it probably is - I believe there are enchantments available to reduce a weapon's weight.

I think what you're suggesting is quite reasonable. After discussing this with the game master, we have decided that there is nothing wrong with applying your suggestions!
However, if the weapon is transformed in this way, I think it is right that it cannot be considered to use it in the form of a Broadsword. I think we need to think a little more about that.
Of course, unless someone suggests a better way, I'll probably use the one you suggested. Thanks for the proper answer.
In particular, giving a +2 bonus to Holdout is the same concept as giving the effect of SM-2, so the explanation that it can express the expansion and contraction of the handle was very effective.
By the way, I have one question when using this method.
The weapon (Polearm) I'm trying to transform is the "Light Horse-Cutter" (GURPS LT p.68; GURPS MA p.229). This weapon has two attack modes, both of which have "1, 2*" reach. In this case, if SM-2 is applied, will the reach be 1?
I'm thinking about how to deal with that part. If you have any good comments, please let me know.

Originally Posted by Refplace

Since magic is an option, you can purchase this as an advantage.
Add Melee Attack. Reach 1-4.
GURPS Power-Ups: Enhancements discusses how to do this in depth, but if you do not have that GURPS Powers might cover the idea well enough for you to follow it.
If not post your weapon here (mainly how much damage it does) and someone here can do it for you.

Is your suggestion correct for how to apply a modifier to a specific melee weapon as suggested in the "Melee Weapons" section of GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements p.10?
If my understanding is correct, your suggestion is sounds like you want to add "Melee Attack, Reach 1-4, -15%" Limitation to "Dao" (GURPS LT p.66; GURPS MA p.227), a short form of the weapon(Broadsword) I'm going to use.
In this case, the reach of the weapon will increase, but this attack is basically a longer Broadsword, not a Polearm, and the damage of the attack is different, so I can't get the effect I want.
Thanks for the reply, but it looks like I'll have to think a bit more to use this method.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by smin32

Is your suggestion correct for how to apply a modifier to a specific melee weapon as suggested in the "Melee Weapons" section of GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements p.10?
If my understanding is correct, your suggestion is sounds like you want to add "Melee Attack, Reach 1-4, -15%" Limitation to "Dao" (GURPS LT p.66; GURPS MA p.227), a short form of the weapon(Broadsword) I'm going to use.
In this case, the reach of the weapon will increase, but this attack is basically a longer Broadsword, not a Polearm, and the damage of the attack is different, so I can't get the effect I want.
Thanks for the reply, but it looks like I'll have to think a bit more to use this method.

Yes, and as to changing damage type look at the Thrust/Swing modifer in that same supplement. I think its called Thrusting Blade.
You can also add more damage with Accessability only when large or only when swung.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by smin32

However, if the weapon is transformed in this way, I think it is right that it cannot be considered to use it in the form of a Broadsword. I think we need to think a little more about that.

A Light Horse-Cutter with the handle collapsed to be Reach 1 could probably be used with Broadsword - it's basically a heavier version of the Dao. Given its weight, however, you would need high ST to wield it one-handed - 8 lbs would normally call for ST 13, but a weapon like this is going to be rather tip-heavy, so ST 14 to use one-handed.

If you're wanting to use the light horse-cutter with Broadsword when the handle is extended, I'd allow that, but you'd need high enough ST to be able to wield the polearm one-handed. Well, I'd actually reduce it compared to what the normal rules are, but that's because the normal rules are a bit ridiculous here - I'd probably let you use it at Reach 2 one-handed with ST 16.

Originally Posted by smin32

The weapon (Polearm) I'm trying to transform is the "Light Horse-Cutter" (GURPS LT p.68; GURPS MA p.229). This weapon has two attack modes, both of which have "1, 2*" reach. In this case, if SM-2 is applied, will the reach be 1?
I'm thinking about how to deal with that part.

I would use the guidelines in Low Tech Companion 2: Weapons and Warriors for giving a polearm a shorter handle, here. So, -1 to swing damage, and -1 to Reach, for Reach 1. As the weapon is just as heavy as normal, MinST doesn't get adjusted.


For a typical one-handed sword with an extending handle, I'd treat it with the handle extended more like a Naginata than a Horse-cutter. A Horse-cutter with the handle reduced is going to be a rather oversized sword for one-handed use.

[Anthony]

For a mundane mechanism, the big problem is that anything telescoping by that much is going to be super flimsy when telescoped. If you're throwing in magic, the obvious option is the Extend Object spell.

[smin32]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Yes, and as to changing damage type look at the Thrust/Swing modifer in that same supplement. I think its called Thrusting Blade.
You can also add more damage with Accessability only when large or only when swung.

GURPS PU 4: Enhancements p.21 explains that what you said "Thrusting Blade Enhancement, +15%" is used to convert cutting damage into impaling damage. Light Horse-Cutter and Dao already have both attack modes, so I don't think there's any need to use this enhancement.
I still don't quite understand the suggestion to add Damage using the "Accessability" Limitation.
Among the enhancements provided by GURPS, is there an enhancement that adds damage? As far as I know, Damage is determined when specifying the level of Advantage before applying the Enhancement. This is because the basic value of the required CP is calculated based on the level of the advantage. So it's hard to imagine how you apply the extra Damage you're talking about.
If it means to spend additional CP according to the sentence "Calculate the “effective point cost” for each mode, as if it were the appropriate type of Innate Attack." in the Melee Weapons section of GURPS PU 4: Enhancements p.10 , I haven't found an explanation yet that this can directly increase Damage.
If you have any ideas on how to add damage, I'd appreciate it if you could explain.

Originally Posted by Varyon

A Light Horse-Cutter with the handle collapsed to be Reach 1 could probably be used with Broadsword - it's basically a heavier version of the Dao. Given its weight, however, you would need high ST to wield it one-handed - 8 lbs would normally call for ST 13, but a weapon like this is going to be rather tip-heavy, so ST 14 to use one-handed.

If you're wanting to use the light horse-cutter with Broadsword when the handle is extended, I'd allow that, but you'd need high enough ST to be able to wield the polearm one-handed. Well, I'd actually reduce it compared to what the normal rules are, but that's because the normal rules are a bit ridiculous here - I'd probably let you use it at Reach 2 one-handed with ST 16.

I would use the guidelines in Low Tech Companion 2: Weapons and Warriors for giving a polearm a shorter handle, here. So, -1 to swing damage, and -1 to Reach, for Reach 1. As the weapon is just as heavy as normal, MinST doesn't get adjusted.

For a typical one-handed sword with an extending handle, I'd treat it with the handle extended more like a Naginata than a Horse-cutter. A Horse-cutter with the handle reduced is going to be a rather oversized sword for one-handed use.

When the handle is extended, this weapon is essentially a Light Horse-Cutter. I have no plans yet to wield this Polearm with one hand like the famous generals in Northeast Asian historical novels like "The Three Kingdoms". My character will use this weapon with the Polearm skill after the handle is extended.
I think the idea of ​​applying the effect of Short Handle from GURPS LT 2 p.13 when you reach 1 using the Trick Weapons mod is great. The problem is, this mod is designed to work on the Lich 3+'s very long Polearm. So I think I'll have to discuss this with the gamemaster.
The reason I dare to refer to the Light Horse-Cutter as a Dao with a Long Handle is that the Horse Cutter used in Northeast Asia (especially China and Korea) is a weapon called a Podao, and this is precisely a weapon that adds a Long Handle to Dao. because of.
(Reference image, Podao: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vXAy4uSO-...c-9889-291.jpg)
(Reference image, Naginata: https://p.turbosquid.com/ts-thumb/Zz...raybnese3cb89f
As you can see from the image, the Naginata has a thinner and sharper blade compared to the Chinese Podao. Traditionally, medieval Japanese warriors preferred light and agile weapons rather than large and heavy ones, so the Polearm they used was also developed in a relatively light form. , I think this is enough to explain the relatively light weight of this weapon)
Of course, I totally agree with your comments that the Horse-Cutter with a short handle would be a rather large knife for one-handed use. Let's talk with the Gamemaster about your proposed equipment performance tuning procedure.
Thanks for the detailed reply!

Originally Posted by Anthony

For a mundane mechanism, the big problem is that anything telescoping by that much is going to be super flimsy when telescoped. If you're throwing in magic, the obvious option is the Extend Object spell.

I am clearly aware of the reduced durability when giving the handle a telescoping feature. Your point is valid, but as I said before starting this discussion, the setting for this piece of equipment is a world of magic. Of course, you could simply enchant the handle to stretch, but I wanted to consider the mechanical method first. For my taste, that method is more "cool". Of course, it would be easier to use the Extend Object Spell, but I would like to avoid using magic as a universal tool to overwrite the part where I can add a more plausible explanation.
I agree that your suggestion is reasonable. Thanks for the proper answer.

[jason taylor]

Have it twist into a locking mechanism.