How Much Food is in an Urban US Armory?

[Witchking]

I found an interesting GAO report on da web.

Granted it is from 2015 but it would seem to reflect certain 'best practices' that I would expect might still be in place today.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-15-474.pdf

Some interesting highlights:

Military service officials expressed concerns that in light of changing
needs, it may be difficult for the services to consume MREs in the future
at a rate that will prevent disposals due to expiring shelf life.

My reading of this is that (as of 2015) GAO read Military MRE stockpiles to be large enough that (with 3 year shelf life) they might end up throwing away MREs not consumed within the shelf life window.

DLA has identified an MRE war reserve level of 5 million cases.25
As DLA manages MREs within the WRM level of 5 million cases, it
monitors various types of data to determine the exact amount of MRE
purchases that will be made and when. For example, DLA monitors yearly
sales estimates that are provided by the military services, information
provided by the services about their ability to consume MREs through
training, and agreements in place with the military services about storage
The current level was established in fiscal year 2005 at a time when U.S. military operations were ongoing in Iraq and Afghanistan. DLA officials stated that DLA purchases up to the WRM level, meeting the 5 million case level through a combination of on-hand assets and assets that are due to be delivered within a 12-month period. According to a 2013 DLA study, while DLA is not obligated to purchase a specific amount of MREs per year from its
suppliers, it currently has an annual purchase objective of 2.5 million
MRE cases.

So there are a LOT of MREs in the DLA (Defense Logistics Agency) pipeline. There may not be enough of them at THAT particular Guard/Army Rev base. However likely the information as to WHERE the stockpiles of MREs are located nationally are likely to be there or to be accessible from there.

Heck in addition to digital records and procurement trails to follow they might even have some hard copy for when the electric fails...

[dcarson]

The discussion of QM gives an idea if you want them to have more. A supply sergeant or CO that got shorted once too often and has arranged to have a extra half a dozen pallets stashed in the back of a store room just in case. maybe past the use by date but that is probably still safe.

[bocephus]

Originally Posted by Witchking

I found an interesting GAO report on da web.

Granted it is from 2015 but it would seem to reflect certain 'best practices' that I would expect might still be in place today.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-15-474.pdf

Some interesting highlights:



My reading of this is that (as of 2015) GAO read Military MRE stockpiles to be large enough that (with 3 year shelf life) they might end up throwing away MREs not consumed within the shelf life window.



So there are a LOT of MREs in the DLA (Defense Logistics Agency) pipeline. There may not be enough of them at THAT particular Guard/Army Rev base. However likely the information as to WHERE the stockpiles of MREs are located nationally are likely to be there or to be accessible from there.

Heck in addition to digital records and procurement trails to follow they might even have some hard copy for when the electric fails...

The vast majority of these MREs are in forward deployed units and locations that support those units.

Also this is DoD. So it covers not only all branches of service but logistic support or backup of Consulates, Embassies, and other Govt activities (across the globe, incl refugee and disaster relief).

DoD covers a HUGE net, all Ships (which is a big one) all services, and all civilians that are employed directly or via contract.

I maintain that your local Guard post will have at most a weeks worth for the local contingent, unless part of their role is logistic support for regional disaster scenarios (flood/hurricane/etc).

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by bocephus

I maintain that your local Guard post will have at most a weeks worth for the local contingent, unless part of their role is logistic support for regional disaster scenarios (flood/hurricane/etc).

I would mostly agree, except for 'special circumstances'. One of my points was that the local armory would have the contact numbers, addresses, expected ship times, etc, etc, etc for the MRE distribution network.

So if the food on-site starts running low it provides a number of possible adventure threads so the party can 'go get some takeout.'

A lot of the est 5m MREs will be in stockpiles overseas...but also a given is that a lot of the 5m will also be moving its way through the network towards expected end users.

Warehouses at the production facilities, 53' trailers at contracted freight haulers' terminals (or railyards), warehouses at port shipping terminals prior to shipment overseas (ditto for airports for air freight). There are a lot of potential targets that would have a fraction of the network total, but a wonderous amount for a small refugee group.

A group with the right locations, a semi driver, someone who can use a pallet jack, and the initiative to GET THERE FIRST; might eat quite well indeed.

For a little while at least...

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by Witchking

There are a lot of potential targets that would have a fraction of the network total, but a wonderous amount for a small refugee group.

Flipping this around, a warehouse that already has a supply of MREs is going to be very attractive as a base for any group. Depending on the willingness of the warehouse denizens to negotiate, this is an opportunity for the PCs to make hard choices about bargaining, offering to merge the 2 groups, etc etc, versus murder-hoboing the warehouse (and gaining a reputation as bandits, if any witnesses survive).

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Dustin

Flipping this around, a warehouse that already has a supply of MREs is going to be very attractive as a base for any group. Depending on the willingness of the warehouse denizens to negotiate, this is an opportunity for the PCs to make hard choices about bargaining, offering to merge the 2 groups, etc etc, versus murder-hoboing the warehouse (and gaining a reputation as bandits, if any witnesses survive).

Possible, but speaking as someone who worked in a trucking freight terminal for 2ish years, for the most part workers do not really have an idea what the freight is.

Of the people who worked in the terminal 4-10ish, I was one of the people who knew what 'some' of the freight was (because I helped set up freight that required an appointment be made for delivery time). Vast majority of freight bills do not necessarily have much in the way of detail (number of pallets, weight of each pallet or aggregate weight).

Even the details that were on the bills were often not paid attention to by drivers and dock workers.

We had an account that manufactured and shipped lightbulbs (fluorescent tubes). We moved the customers freight a couple of times a week, every week. Pallets were marked 'fragile' and 'do not topload'. Yet every 2-3 months or so someone would put 1k+ lbs of freight on top of one of their pallets. 4-6 feet of cardboard boxes containing glass tubes would reduce to 18 odd inches or so in a New York minute. (I knew because I also handled OSD - Overs, Shorts, and Damage).

For the most part the concerns (if this much attention WAS paid) would be 'is this the right trailer?', 'will it fit?'/'can I MAKE it fit?', and 'what am I having for lunch?'.

Now the terminal actually picking up from the MRE manufacturer would likely know who they are and what their freight tends to be. (Also where the factory is)

As the freight crosses the country and moves from terminal to terminal there is a progressively lower chance for peeps to have any idea what is on the pallet(s) other than 'dry goods' or whatever short, vague description was put into the template for the bills of lading and exported out again and again for years.

But yeah your scenario is another possibility that a GM can play with...

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Witchking

Possible, but speaking as someone who worked in a trucking freight terminal for 2ish years, for the most part workers do not really have an idea what the freight is.
SNIP

Pretty sure that the usual personal doesn´t know what´s inside the freight or packages. Especially as new technology like fuzzy logic stores things not orderly as humans, but uses any space available. Most people in a warehouse wouldn´t find their own nose without the helpful vest or computers. that are the folks who handle the cargo, the higher echolons may know generally what is stored, but mostly not where.

We have a big warehouse in my region of a major TV shop which also stores a lot other stuff. The pallets and packages are stored in a way you couldn´t even get them without working grid, and nearly all have just a criptic barcode on the outside.

In fact the only way to find what you seek and make a inventory without computers would be to open everything and make a list on paper.

[bocephus]

Originally Posted by Willy

In fact the only way to find what you seek and make a inventory without computers would be to open everything and make a list on paper.

Ahhhh the glories of Post Apocalypse logistics gaming.

Roll 3d6. Oh Billy found something new, roll another 3d6 Sweet, its a crate of 1000 squeaky chew toys!! Amazing. Ok next PC roll 3d6 ....

hehhehheh

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Willy

In fact the only way to find what you seek and make a inventory without computers would be to open everything and make a list on paper.

It is possible. My direct experience is 20ish years old. The freight bills, which were 1 copy to the office, 1 two part copy to the driver, customer signed on receipt one copy for them one copy back to the office for the files; had bare bones description usually.

One exception would be HazMat regulations (contrary to trooper opinions an MRE does not in fact count as a Hazardous Material!) not applicable here.

However freight bills DID list the shipper and the recipient, there are clues available there if the PC's know who/what they are looking for.

After all if the Armory is question was receiving MREs they should have appropriate freight bills to look at. They would then 'Just' be looking to match up to similar bills wherever they go 'hunting'.

[Anthony]

I realize that things like food in disasters, while the National Guard may be heavily involved in its distribution, would generally be administered by FEMA, not the military. I suspect the FEMA distribution center in Cumberland MD would be of interest.