GURPS Star Trekking - Help? Assistance?

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Would love to do it all as "GURPSy" as possible. -Ed C.

Cruiser Big Destroyer Small.

Most flavors of Star Trek for transporters (the most common boarding avenue) to work on a ship that ships shields must be down.

A small Destroyer with shields down is incredibly easier for a bigger Cruiser to destroy. The only 'saving' grace is that the Cruiser might have a reason to capture.

However once the Cruiser has boarding parties aboard the Destroyer they are 70+% of the way to that capture in most normal scenarios.

If the GM plans for the Calvary to 'come over the hill' great.

If the GM has 'legendary' marines aboard the destroyer great.

I was just noting that even having a plan it would be good to have a backup plan (and possibly liberal dice fudging in the parties favor) since as described it sounds like a 'challenging encounter'.

Edit: WW2 which was a common experience for most of the writers/creators of TOS...US Destroyer average crew appx 110 men US Cruiser 1100.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

If I could use the old FASA ship combat rules in conjunction with GURPS I would

The one-shot adventure referenced up-thread includes simplified rules which sort of combine FASA and GURPS Space starship combat rules. They look pretty simple and seem to capture the flavor of Star Trek ship combat. They might be worth checking out.

Additionally, the stats for the Miranda-Class ship might be close enough to a destroyer that you could easily convert them.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Greetings again,


Its "Star Trek" and I want to do ship combat - so I am trying to figure out the old GURPS: Spaceships combat system and how to approximate a Saladin-class destroyer and a typical Klingon D-7 Battle cruiser. The next game session there is very likely going to be a battle.

Oh yeah - the players are the Officers or Department heads of a Saladin-class destroyer named the USS Cochise NCC-530.

The year is 2261 - or 2 years after the current episodes of "Strange New Worlds" and 5 years before the classic Captain Kirk "TOS" stories take place.

I want to run a boarding action where a group of Klingons try to take over the USS Cochise. So of course I feel really out of practice with the combat rules or the way I used to run it so it never felt 'slow' to the players.



-Ed C.

The most honest answer for the balance between a Saladin Destroyer vs D-7 battlecruiser is what do you want it to be?

Don't read too much in the names destroyer & battlecruiser. The meaning of the name changes over time (e.g., frigate) so for Starfleet destroyer could just be the term for a major ship focused on combat operations.

In the Technical Manual, the Saladin is half the tonnage of a Constitution class cruiser (95,000 tons displacement) but has the same armament. That could be interpreted a number of ways:

1. The Saladin is a muscle ship focused on combat and competitive with the Constitution class.

2 The Saladin is more focused on combat than Constitution class ships but still serves secondary functions. Its weapons pack less punch than a Constitution class but more punch per ton.

3. The Saladin is functionally a scaled down Constitution class ship.

So compared to a D-7...D-7 tonnage is unclear but the numbers I've seen suggest around 125,000 tons. Bigger than the Saladin but not overwhelmingly so. Combat focused obviously but the models I've seen usually assume they carry significant troops as well. Usually they seem outgunned by Constitution class ships (that was true in the FASA rpg) but that could be explain by the power of Kirk. I'd assume Starfleet design is a little superior - the Feds have the best engineers. Depending on what you want, a Saladin class could be surprisingly even, somewhat outgunned or badly outgunned. Design the two ships accordingly. I'd also make the Klingons even in skill for strict combat functions but inferior for support - engineering, medical, operations not focused on blowing stuff up.

Depending on how balanced the ships are, you could play it as the D-7 got tricky and managed to beam over a bunch of troops to the Cochise so the crew has to fight off boarders while fighting the D-7. Alternately, if you assume the D-7 outgunned the Saladin badly, the Klingons deliberately set out to capture the ship so the Saladin is trying to resist boarding long enough for help to arrive and the D-7 is pulling its punches because it doesn't want to destroy its prize.

The Intrepid class cruiser in Spaceships 3 looks suspiciously Star Trek inspired so that might be worth a look for a build.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Infornific

So compared to a D-7...D-7 tonnage is unclear but the numbers I've seen suggest around 125,000 tons. Bigger than the Saladin but not overwhelmingly so. Combat focused obviously but the models I've seen usually assume they carry significant troops as well. Usually they seem outgunned by Constitution class ships (that was true in the FASA rpg) but that could be explain by the power of Kirk..

No, my memory is pretty clear that in FASATrek Federation ships had significant technical advantages over Klingon stuff built-in.

Also, for FASATrek you'd want to look at available for weapons and shields (which came from the engines, both warp and impulse). Two ships with the same weapons might not be very equal at all.

[Pursuivant]

According to Memory Alpha, the images of the Saladin Class destroyer in canon were ripped off with few modifications from Star Fleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph. He created the design out of whole cloth and it then got "canonized" as background images in the two of the movies.

Since SFTM gave notional stats for its armament, crew, etc. you could raid that book for better info if you've got it.

Nominally, the saucer section is identical to that of the Constitution class, which means that you can use readily-available maps of USS Enterprise for most of the ship.

Of course, since Star Fleet Battles is based on SFTM, the Saladin class was one of the first designs that the Amarillo Deign Bureau people adapted. That means that you might get decent "close enough to canon" stats for it from SFB or Prime Directive!

My recollection of playing SFB is that it was grossly underpowered and undergunned. A D-7, balanced to be a reasonable match for a Constitution-Class Cruiser, would make short work of it using SFB rules. You might want to upgrade the Cochise somehow (or downgrade the D-7) to make it a more even fight using a homebrewed rules system.

Memory Beta has a summary of the SFTM data:

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Saladin_class

Scan from SFTM here:

https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/sftm.htm

It looks like the ship has 2 photon torpedo launchers in the decks just below the bridge mounted on the dorsal side of the saucer, a pair of phasers mounted on the port and starboard dorsal sections of the saucer, and a pair of phasers mounted on the ventral side of the saucer near the bow.

Apparently, the Cochise or MK-VIIIB subclass was upgraded (but no stats provided), which might provide a handy explanation as to why a Federation destroyer has a fighting chance against a D-7.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No, my memory is pretty clear that in FASATrek Federation ships had significant technical advantages over Klingon stuff built-in.

Also, for FASATrek you'd want to look at available for weapons and shields (which came from the engines, both warp and impulse). Two ships with the same weapons might not be very equal at all.

That fits my memory. I meant D-7s could be interpreted differently though I'd go with them being inferior to the Constitution class.

As I recall, FASA Trek had a destroyer similar to the Saladin class that had similar but less powerful weapons compared to the Enterprise. There's barely a trace of Saladin class in the official canon so there's leeway for deciding just what kind of ships they are.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

There is also the matter of making a decent handful of NPC crew member so the players have detailed folks to command and help out.

That means right now I really good GURPS templates for these races:

Caitians - the cat like race seen a few times - mainly "TAS" and "Lower Decks"

Deltans - Bald race really only seen in "ST:TMP"

Denobulans - Race featured in "Enterprise" but assumed to still part of the Federation in the 2260s

Edoans or "Edosians" - the orange skinned race with three arms and three legs seen in TAS as Lt. Arrex the Navigator

Saurians - The often mentioned race, now finally seen as crew in episodes of "Discovery" and "Strange New Worlds"

The races of Vulcan, Andorians, and Tellarites I am using the Prime Directive templates that are in the GCA.

Hoping to find enough miniatures here and there before our next game session on Sunday July 31.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

-Ed C.

Am I correct in assume all you're looking for regarding character generation is racial templates? Wish I still had the old FASA rpg since that had game stats for Caitians and Edoans.

[Qoltar]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Am I correct in assume all you're looking for regarding character generation is racial templates? Wish I still had the old FASA rpg since that had game stats for Caitians and Edoans.

Yes, I nee GURPS style templates for those races.

I DO have the old FASA books that you refer to - but they are not really a huge help for GURPS, tho I did concoct a system to convert FASA NPCs and pregenerated characters into GURPS style characters that I use as 'background' NPCs.

- Ed C.

[Qoltar]

Combat

GURPS-style combat...

Here is the problem that I was hoping some of you would help me out with - If GURPS Combat is done in 1 second turns, then doing a fight against a 'boarding action' where Transporters are being used will end pretty quick.

Most 'Star Trek' transporters are flickering or shimmering for what feels like TWO seconds

That means anyone 'beaming in' to invade or attack will be spotted pretty quickly and does not have any element of surprise.

-Ed C.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Qoltar

Most 'Star Trek' transporters are flickering or shimmering for what feels like TWO seconds

That means anyone 'beaming in' to invade or attack will be spotted pretty quickly and does not have any element of surprise.

Therefore, you don't transport people into open areas. You put them into concealed spaces, a little way from anyone who's armed. That allow the entire boarding party to be on board the target ship before any of them have to start fighting.