Spear vs Knights... am I missing something?

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Part of the issue is that GURPS makes eye-shots too easy.

When "professional" skill level is 12, having -10 to hit is "easy"? : ) (due to size)

Consider an invisible foe is only -6 to hit... B394.

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by OddGamer

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

For the lopsided characters you have designed this, yes.


The Step feature (B368) is important for differences of Reach. See the Box in B388 for an example of long vs. short "Long Weapon Tactics". If one on one the longer reach weapon can just keep one extra step away from the foe (even at same skill level).

That said I think it was pointed out the swordfighter could Wait and strike the spear as they attack. Rules as Written the spear wielder can parry the attack on their weapon. (Striking at weapons B400)

Another tactic open to the spear wielder is "chinks in armour"... B400

Note also the spear user can also carry a large shield with a guige (sling) to benefit from the DB (defense bonus) without taking up a hand or learn techniques to wield a small shield in hand and block at the same time (Low tech companion 2: weapons p.19).

As a final note, an option that may be limited to Trained by a Master charactes is the "Giant Step", +1 to a Step distance for -1 FP... (Martial Arts p. 135). That said, then the "Heroic Charge" on the same page may be equally available to the sword guy to make up the distance ...


I suggest you weigh two wielders of similar skill levels and start again... : )

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Sorenant

As Kromm said, this "knightly" thing is very idealistic. If it's a tactic or weapon that works, I don't see why wouldn't they make use of it, like guns.
If "poison" part bothers, maybe alchemical grenades like Alchemist's Fire might sound better if available.


Even if he were, I don't think the "Poor Peasant" would be considered noble and chivalrous.

When my party was having trouble with monsters with Dodge 12 or so one solution was to get grenades 5 to 15$ each (p.B277); +4 to throwing skill to hit the hex under the foe... this thread's spear guy could not do anything about it either and is unarmoured, vulnerable to fragmentation damage ("Parry missile weapons" skill is not included in his template...) p.B212

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by OddGamer

ST 10, DX 10, IQ 10, HT 10, Wealth: Poor, Close Combat (Spear)-4, Spear-27
--Equipment: Spear (1d+1 Impaling, using 2 hands)
==Dodge: 8, Parry: 16

It just occured to me the simplest solution to Spear-27 guy is a Bola. (p. B410). As long as he /tries/ to parry with his impaling spear and does not Dodge, then it automatically hits his arm. He cannot escape it for at least 3 seconds. A secondary effect is almost certainly disarming his ST10 grip of the weapon. (Then spend 1s to pick up the spear again and 1 second to ready it)

[Lovewyrm]

Since this is related to the question I have for which I made my account just now:

Doesn't a spear require ready maneuvers to strike at different ranges?
Meaning the knight could just charge the peasand and grapple him, or throw his shield at him, or go "hey what's that over there?!" and, well, just be more effective in close combat than the spearman.

...as for my own thing:
In the basic set on page 273, Spear, in one handed mode, has a reach of 1 with an asterisk.
Which denotes the ready maneuver for changing ranges.

But with only one range...what's the point?

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Lovewyrm

Doesn't a spear require ready maneuvers to strike at different ranges?

Yes.

Meaning the knight could just charge the peasand and grapple him, or throw his shield at him, or go "hey what's that over there?!" and, well, just be more effective in close combat than the spearman.

One possibly useful tactic, yes, as long as the spearman missed you on the way in. (See "Stop Thrust".) A good fighter will have unarmed skills and backup weapons so they have some options, rather than just piling all their points into one weapon.

In the basic set on page 273, Spear, in one handed mode, has a reach of 1 with an asterisk... But with only one range...what's the point?

The same spear can have reach two if the grip change is also to two hands. That's the next line on the table.

Martial Arts has the Grip Mastery Perk, which lets you change grips (once per turn) as a free action.

[Lovewyrm]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Yes.

One possibly useful tactic, yes, as long as the spearman missed you on the way in. (See "Stop Thrust".) A good fighter will have unarmed skills and backup weapons so they have some options, rather than just piling all their points into one weapon.

The same spear can have reach two if the grip change is also to two hands. That's the next line on the table.

Martial Arts has the Grip Mastery Perk, which lets you change grips (once per turn) as a free action.

Just to really see if I understand you:
The ready maneuver on the one handed mode is there to (ironically, regarding me) clarify that changing hand mode does not confer a free range change if going from 1 to 2?
And if going from one-handed with 1 range, to two-handed 1 with one range, this ready maneuver would not be required?

As for the rest, well, it's a peasant. A poor peasant.
He's really good with that spear, but maybe he's not good at fighting? Psychologially speaking, or something.
As in, any strike he would do would be pretty true, but does that also mean he has the tactical skill to use it?
But perhaps that's going into roleplay, and not roll play.
He could have spent ages perfecting strikes where he wants them to be, he's one with his weapon, it's an extension of his body.

But does that mean he can make sound tactical decisions? I wonder how much overlap there is, regarding weapon skills.
Can a surgical striker still be somewhat of a dunderhead? But if he's kind of a dunderhead, then why would he be able to overcome feints, and other such things?

[Eric Funk]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The same spear can have reach two if the grip change is also to two hands. That's the next line on the table.

Martial Arts has the Grip Mastery Perk, which lets you change grips (once per turn) as a free action.

I agree. In my own campaign a fighter wanted to "move through" an enemy's hex so decided to Shield Rush them. The foe dodged and they ran through... in Spear Guy's case, parrying a 400 lb armoured dwarf wielding orichalcum shield with a 4 lb spear will end up in some breakage (B371)... (orichalum weapons have +2 to break non-orichalcum weapons in parry...GDF1 p. 27)

I think you are thinking of "Reach Mastery", (Powerups2 Perks p.7) : "Changing Reach with certain long weapons"

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

One possibly useful tactic, yes, as long as the spearman missed you on the way in. (See "Stop Thrust".)

That's why you block and slip (or whatever the "retreat forward" option is called). If you really wanted to mess up someone who thinks having one weapon skill at crazy high levels is an auto-win, use slip and step to get quickly into phonebooth stuffing range.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Lovewyrm

As for the rest, well, it's a peasant. A poor peasant.
He's really good with that spear, but maybe he's not good at fighting? Psychologially speaking, or something.

You only have to see ONCE, in person, around ten mounted police officers drive back around ten THOUSAND just-short-of-rioters to appreciate the impact of a cavalry charge on the inexperienced. (True story.)

That being said, I can't conceivably imagine how one gets to Spear-27 without being tolerably cool in battle. Even given my caveats as to the whole situation uptopic, there is no frigging way I would ever allow anyone to have a weapon skill within a dozen pips that high who'd never experienced genuine action. None.

The notion of a poor peasant being psychologically and tactically able to handle the situation's certainly a lot more realistic than the notion of one having a weapon skill that high, anyway.