Which skills are worh raising really high?

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Farmer

At -30, it should be extraordinarily difficult, and that's why there are so many things you can do to counteract range. Aiming, scopes and/or other targeting methods, Zen archery/marksmanship/etc.

What "easy" to obtain -30 situations are you seeing regularly?

Rupert said a lot of it, but ranged combat has the highest number of penalties of any skill that I've seen;

Even 100yds can sometimes be too close and that's -10. It can easily climb up much higher.
You don't always have time to aim. Or use the normally readily available tools.
Getting 100+yds away isn't always a matter of horizontal distance. Sometimes you've got bad footing from being in a helicopter your friend is fighting for control over.
Distraction is fairly common. Getting ONE shot off before taking time to put out is generally better than waiting to put out the fire and being too late.
Fighting in the day gives away your position. -5 to -8 for lighting isn't unusual
How many bullets do you need to hit with? RoF gives a tiny bonus compared to how well you have to roll to hit with those bullets.
Sometimes leaving the target alive isn't an option. If they have kevlar or other chest protection, you're looking at -7 to -10 for brain shots
Sometimes you don't have a good angle. Concealment has penalties but so does trying to shoot through a window at a sharp angle (where you might effectively only have a couple inches to shoot through). This is at best -2
Are you able to stand still to take the shot? Or are you sliding down a hill? Getting pulled along by chains behind a car, trying to shoot the driver so you don't take much damage? Falling down a building because there's literally no other way to get to your target?

In ranged combat where both sides know the other is there and things tend to be fair for both sides doesn't accrue giant penalties. It's when being found and being dead are synonymous that they do. Or when the world is falling apart around you and you have to take the shot NOW.

Now, that can be pretty extreme. But I've definitely seen situations where the player thinks they need to take a shot and the GM says "Okay, -25 from all these things." and the player rolls because sometimes you need a one in a million with your 28 skill.

*I didn't add Deceptive Attack to the list because I frankly can't recall if you can do that with ranged weapons. Otherwise, that's another giant penalty sink

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

But I've definitely seen situations where the player thinks they need to take a shot and the GM says "Okay, -25 from all these things." and the player rolls because sometimes you need a one in a million with your 28 skill.

Well, it's always a 1 in 216 unless the GM simply rules it impossible.

So long as it's fun, it's good, and certainly RPGs and GURPS support utterly cinematic and unrealistic action - nothing wrong with it :-).

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Farmer

Well, it's always a 1 in 216 unless the GM simply rules it impossible.

So long as it's fun, it's good, and certainly RPGs and GURPS support utterly cinematic and unrealistic action - nothing wrong with it :-).

The difference between a million and 216 is PC's built in luck. The same luck that forces them into deadly situations ;)

More seriously, I also wouldn't have any issue with saying "This should be impossible for your character because your effective skill is currently -4, but I am open to you spending Impulse Points to say otherwise".

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Farmer

Well, it's always a 1 in 216 unless the GM simply rules it impossible.

So long as it's fun, it's good, and certainly RPGs and GURPS support utterly cinematic and unrealistic action - nothing wrong with it :-).

Since 3-4 always succeed it would be 4 in 216 (1 in 216 for 3 plus 3 in 216 for 4)

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by maximara

Since 3-4 always succeed it would be 4 in 216 (1 in 216 for 3 plus 3 in 216 for 4)

Yeah. We usually play that effective negative skills need a 3, assuming the GM allows it at all.

A 1 in 54 chance of succeeding at anything is too high :-)

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Farmer

Yeah. We usually play that effective negative skills need a 3, assuming the GM allows it at all.

A 1 in 54 chance of succeeding at anything is too high :-)

Not in an Action setting. :-). Seriously, even a 1 defense succeeds 1 in 54 (Basic Set p 374).

Heck, Last Action Hero even make a joke regarding just how much damage "important" Action characters in movie could take.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

*I didn't add Deceptive Attack to the list because I frankly can't recall if you can do that with ranged weapons. Otherwise, that's another giant penalty sink

Prediction Shots, MA121, are ranged Deceptive Attacks. They typically only work against Dodges, but in a cinematic campaign (like, say, one where characters may expect to need to snipe a target 100 yards away while on fire and falling out of a helicopter), I'd have no issue with having it work against Blocks (and Parries, if those are an option - indeed, that's how I'd expect an elite gunman to be able to take out a Jedi).

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Prediction Shots, MA121, are ranged Deceptive Attacks. They typically only work against Dodges, but in a cinematic campaign (like, say, one where characters may expect to need to snipe a target 100 yards away while on fire and falling out of a helicopter), I'd have no issue with having it work against Blocks (and Parries, if those are an option - indeed, that's how I'd expect an elite gunman to be able to take out a Jedi).

Awesome, thanks. I think I'd allow that option to cinematic users (Gunslinger/Heroic Archer/Weapon Master) because it absolutely fits for them.