revisiting Backbreaker from a Realistic instead of Cinematic angle

[kenclary]

(Looking back through the playtest discussions, from 15 years ago, it's pretty clear that we were, uh, grappling with 3 problems: 1) GURPS' collision rules are super simplified, 2) GURPS' rules for things like judo throws and grab and smash etc are very handwavey, and 3) all those rules are not reconciled with some universal physics rules. Note that fixing all that was out-of-scope for any GURPS supplement, and possibly ungameable. Also, Technical Grappling doesn't address those issues and would only add complications.)

Originally Posted by Plane

The main problem w/ Grab and Smash is it requires you're holding whichever location you attack and you can't actually grapple the spine AFAIK just the torso.

I guess if it were possible to grab+smash to target an eye by grappling the head you might allow torso grapples to smash sublocations into objects?

The "all-out grapple and strike" version can, in fact, target the spine when you grapple the torso.

So were you figuring we add the damage of a fall/collision plus the thrust damage an offensive judo throw can add to that?

Outside of any "GURPS doesn't really cover that sort of physics/biomechanics detail" issues, I still wouldn't add falling damage, since the fall to "land" on the knee isn't far enough to warrant extra damage (in any realistic judo throw / grab and smash solution).

The knee seems like something of a necessity than a bonus. I know any crushing attack from rear can target the spine but it seems like at some point a large enough crushing attack (like flat ground) shouldn't be able to make such targeted hits.

Getting into the nuts and bolts, the spine is a joint. Or really a bunch of joints. You can target the spine with a throw by spiking the body in a way that tries to bend the spine in a bad direction. (Might as well target the neck.)

When I have (accidentally) dropped someone on my knee, it hurt their back, but not exactly their spine --- more it hurt some of their core muscles. So the knee doesn't necessarily make it easier to target the spine specifically.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kenclary

You can target the spine with a throw by spiking the body in a way that tries to bend the spine in a bad direction.

I think that'd be like Wrench Spine or something, a strike means you actually have to hit it directly not manipulate it by neighbor location contact.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Plane

I think that'd be like Wrench Spine or something, a strike means you actually have to hit it directly not manipulate it by neighbor location contact.

Damage is damage, location is location. A "backbreaker" isn't likely to be directly striking the spine, either. (Usually too much muscle in the way; you need to cut/pierce to actually hit the spine.)

[Plane]

Originally Posted by kenclary

Damage is damage, location is location. A "backbreaker" isn't likely to be directly striking the spine, either. (Usually too much muscle in the way; you need to cut/pierce to actually hit the spine.)

Like with the skull that's one of the weird bits, you can do 1/2/3 cutting/impaling damage and the DR stops it when you'd think it'd draw some blood.