RPM Invisibility rituals

[johndallman]

Project Grimoire lists it as "Greater Transform Body[8]; Lesser Control Energy[5]; Duration: 10 minutes [1]; Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3]; Cost: 51."

I don't think I've ever used outright invisibility with RPM. Bonuses to Stealth skill were what I tended to use.

[qchap]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Project Grimoire lists it as "Greater Transform Body[8]; Lesser Control Energy[5]; Duration: 10 minutes [1]; Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3]; Cost: 51."

It's some more confusing. Greater Transform Body - ok. Control Energy for clothes and such? Ok, but why Lesser? And why not just one Greater Control Energy?

For the Altered Traits - I see that it's not using it. Some explanations about why is it right choice would help me more, but the example is fine too, thanks!

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by qchap

Greater Transform Body - ok. Control Energy for clothes and such? Ok, but why Lesser? And why not just one Greater Control Energy?

The choices are based more on how you see the spell working, and sometimes how complicated or expensive you want the spell to be. There's always more than one way to build any effect.

Just guessing at what this author had in mind, I'd think they saw the spell as altering the subject's body to sense it on one side and re-emit matching light on the other, if not transform it to act as a light pipe or metamaterial to carry around the incoming light. That sounds Greater to me. Lesser Control Energy is there to handle details like actually creating that light to emit. Making Body the main effect helps define the effect as affecting all of one creature, confined by the boundaries of its body, as opposed to, say, a spherical bubble around their center of mass. Letting the light actually land on the subject, as opposed to bending incoming light around without ever touching it, is one way to wave a hand at the classic drawback of light-bending rationales rendering the subject blind. (If the light doesn't reach their retina because it's sent around the subject, how do they see? The magi-babble has to claim to duplicate that light, not just reroute existing photons.)

It's probably worth considering how the invis is supposed to work to help answer in-game questions about corner cases. It's also probably worth not getting too hung up on the physical details. It's magic; it won't actually work in minute, quantitative physical detail, or we'd just call it a well-understood "technology". Given how broad as the RPM Paths are, they don't resolve to that kind of detail anyway.

[qchap]

Originally Posted by johndallman

[URL="http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=124196"]I don't think I've ever used outright invisibility with RPM. Bonuses to Stealth skill were what I tended to use.

If not using Altered Traits for Invisibility is right, then it would cost something like "Greater Control Energy[5]; Duration: 10 minutes [1]; Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3]; Cost: 27 (9*3)", and it would give you +9 bonus to Stealth rolls.

"Lesser Control Energy[5]; Duration: 10 minutes [1]; Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3]; Bestows a Bonus, Stealth +7 [20]; Cost: 29" - if you'd choose to add a Stealth bonus, it'd cost you more for just +7 bonus. And it's even if +7 bonus is allowed by Lesser effect (which is often not, as I understand).

[qchap]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Project Grimoire lists it as "Greater Transform Body[8]; Lesser Control Energy[5]; Duration: 10 minutes [1]; Subject Weight: 300 lbs. [3]; Cost: 51."

One more interesting thing - I found a Strike Blind spell in the Project Grimoire, and its listed like this: "Greater Control Body (5) + Altered Trait, Blindness (10) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3).*57 energy (19×3)", so it uses Altered Traits to give Blindness. Why is it needed here and isn't in the Invisibility spell? I honestly don't see real difference (pun not intended), except that the first is advantage and the second is disadvantage - and, as I understand, it should be easier to impose disadvantage, not harder.

So, should then a correct Strike Blind spell be listed like "Greater Control Body (5) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 27 energy (9×3)"? Or does the Invisibility spell need Altered Traits? I think it should be one way or another for both spells. Or am I wrong?

[Celjabba]

I would require Altered Traits for invisibility if you cast it on an independent target (something that can move or interact with the world on its own) - including yourself.
For a ritual that turn an item invisible, otoh, probably not.
But that's for game balance more than any logical analysis.

[qchap]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

I would require Altered Traits for invisibility if you cast it on an independent target (something that can move or interact with the world on its own) - including yourself.
For a ritual that turn an item invisible, otoh, probably not.
But that's for game balance more than any logical analysis.

I kinda agree with this logic. So, I could have two rituals - one for inanimate subjects only, and one for animate OR inanimate subjects. The first one would be much cheaper because of not having Altered Traits modifier. Otherwise the rituals would be identical.

[sir_pudding]

When to Use Altered Traits, How to Be A GURPS GM: Ritual Path Magic p.5, is probably helpful here.

Although based on those guidelines I'm not sure that blinding rituals do. They aren't under the subject's control, while it does modify the target's native abilities itsvmore being turned into a cat than being able to turn in into a cat, Blindness seems implicit to blinding, and it makes sense without Altered Traits.

[qchap]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

When to Use Altered Traits, How to Be A GURPS GM: Ritual Path Magic p.5, is probably helpful here.

Yes, I know those recomendations, but I failed to find use for them here.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

[I]Although based on those guidelines I'm not sure that blinding rituals do. They aren't under the subject's control, while it does modify the target's native abilities itsvmore being turned into a cat than being able to turn in into a cat, Blindness seems implicit to blinding, and it makes sense without Altered Traits.

And it's true to a lot of disadvantages, maybe even to the majority. Spells like Deafness, Lame, Quadriplegic, or even Kleptomania - nothing is under the subject's control. Shouldn't I use Altered Traits for them, as well for almost any other disadvantage?

A lot of other advantages are not "controlled" too, similar to Invisibility. I can't turn off my DR even if I want to suicide. So I don't use Altered Traits for it? Regeneration is not controlled, and I could give it to someone performing ritual self-harming, so he couldn't finish his ritual (evil laugh). So, I don't use Altered Traits for it either, right? Seems really weird.

[qchap]

I've also been always concerned about the Transmogrification spell and the "You don't pay for Altered Traits for the Transform effect, unless it's positive template". So, turning my enemy into a slug would be "Greater Transform Body (8) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Range, 20 yards (6) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 54 energy (18×3)". And it's effectively a "save or die" spell, because I can kill the slug after the encounter with my bare foot. Transmogrification with an area of effect wouldn't be much more expansive, but would solve entire encounters, unless enemies have some counter-magic or very high resistance.