Modelling Equal Gender Appeal

[whswhs]

It's my belief that Rupert is right and Matrix Walker is wrong.

In the first place, Sex Appeal is not "the skill of seducing someone." You can use any Influence skill to approach someone sexually: Diplomacy to ask politely if they're interested, Fast-Talk to give them a line (like the man in "Baby, It's Cold Outside"), Intimidation to threaten or pressure them, Savoir-Faire to make them feel complimented that someone high-class is interested (or to suggest that it would be rude to say no), Streetwise for bad boy/girl appeal. And you can use Sex Appeal to ask for all sorts of things: not just "will you sleep with me?" but "can I get into this club?" or "will you give me a job?" or "let me buy this at a discount." All this is spelled out in Social Engineering.

In fact, you can use Sex Appeal to tease people, or make them uncomfortable or nervous.

And because of that, in the second place, you can use Sex Appeal on someone who, knowing your actual sex, would not want to be physically involved with you. In that case, what you are doing is presenting yourself in a way that they find attractive and respond to on an emotional level, even if at an intentional level they don't intend to act on that attraction. Being Androgynous enables you to appeal in that way to people who are attracted to either sex, and also to pass for either sex with relatively little difficulty.

In fact, it's conceivable that someone who has certain forms of Intolerant might know that an Androgynous person was the wrong sex for them, but react to their Sex Appeal rolls, and at the same time have a negative reaction modifier because the situation creeps them out.

[the_matrix_walker]

As I know this can be a hot-button of a subject, please accept my apology if I use the terms 'sex' or 'gender' in a less than perfectly thought out way.

Originally Posted by whswhs

It's my belief that Rupert is right and Matrix Walker is wrong.

In the first place, Sex Appeal is not "the skill of seducing someone." You can use any Influence skill to approach someone sexually: Diplomacy to ask politely if they're interested, Fast-Talk to give them a line (like the man in "Baby, It's Cold Outside"), Intimidation to threaten or pressure them, Savoir-Faire to make them feel complimented that someone high-class is interested (or to suggest that it would be rude to say no), Streetwise for bad boy/girl appeal. And you can use Sex Appeal to ask for all sorts of things: not just "will you sleep with me?" but "can I get into this club?" or "will you give me a job?" or "let me buy this at a discount." All this is spelled out in Social Engineering.

In fact, you can use Sex Appeal to tease people, or make them uncomfortable or nervous.

Sex Appeal specifically works on those "attracted to your sex". Androgynous does not alter the character's sex.

I'm afraid I don't have Social Engineering. Is there something in there that changes the basic skill description, or that of Androgynous?

I took the OP's statement of " 'a man who even the men want'?" as a specific desire for romantic/sexual desire from someone presenting as the gender the subject is not attracted to.

Originally Posted by whswhs

And because of that, in the second place, you can use Sex Appeal on someone who, knowing your actual sex, would not want to be physically involved with you. In that case, what you are doing is presenting yourself in a way that they find attractive and respond to on an emotional level, even if at an intentional level they don't intend to act on that attraction.

That doesn't jibe with the skill description in the Basic Set.

I'm aware these things can evolve as the system grows. I can only base my answers on the materials I have access to.

Originally Posted by whswhs

Being Androgynous enables you to appeal in that way to people who are attracted to either sex, and also to pass for either sex with relatively little difficulty.

Attractive appearance appeals to anyone, that doesn't enable Attractive people to use Sex Appeal on their own sex.

The case we are talking about has made no indication of trying to pass for one gender or the other, simply how those react to the character on what I assume is a regular basis. I believe they are looking to be sexually compelling to both genders, regardless of their current gender presentation.

If you are Androgynous and present yourself as a particular gender convincingly, your sex appeal works normally against those attracted to the gender presented and will not work on those attracted to the opposite.

Originally Posted by whswhs

In fact, it's conceivable that someone who has certain forms of Intolerant might know that an Androgynous person was the wrong sex for them, but react to their Sex Appeal rolls, and at the same time have a negative reaction modifier because the situation creeps them out.

Again, this must be something new in Social Engineering... Based on the Basic Set description, Sex Appeal does not work on someone not attracted to your gender.

Say you have a pair of people of different sexes, and both are Beautiful/Handsome with Androgynous... if we assume they have the same Sex Appeal skill level, I do not believe they would both have the same chances of seducing a straight person, and I do not see "being straight" as having a an Intolerance.