Blunt weapons and edged weapons using the same skills?

[VIVIT]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Forgot about this part when I made my initial response. The whole thing about straight swords hacking and curved ones slicing isn't really realistic - see this thread for a discussion (and some options for how to handle the difference in a cinematic campaign). Of particular note in that thread was the link to this article.

I wasn't thinking about curved vs. straight; I was thinking about the mass and strength of the blade. IIRC, historical Japanese katana were typically softer than blades made elsewhere because Japan didn't have access to high-quality steel. I could be totally wrong about the mass part, though.

[lugaid]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

IIRC, historical Japanese katana were typically softer than blades made elsewhere because Japan didn't have access to high-quality steel.

Katana designs compensate for that in part by making the spine thicker, along with other design and manufacturing process considerations.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by VIVIT

I wasn't thinking about curved vs. straight; I was thinking about the mass and strength of the blade. IIRC, historical Japanese katana were typically softer than blades made elsewhere because Japan didn't have access to high-quality steel. I could be totally wrong about the mass part, though.

I don't think katanas tend to be any lighter than European swords of comparable size - if anything, they may be heavier, given they have a length comparable to a one-handed European sword, but are designed for two-handed use. And while the raw materials they had access to were indeed inferior to what much of Europe (and indeed mainland Asia) had, they compensated for this by extensive use of crucible steel, folding techniques, etc to refine their steel into something sword-grade (I believe sword-grade steel has a specific name in Japanese, hagane, typically translated as "full metal" or similar).

I have heard that some skilled swordsmen specifically used their sword in a manner that was less likely to cause damage. If this is true, it's unlikely to be unique to the katana, and indeed wouldn't be an attribute of a different skill, but more appropriately built as a special Technique. GURPS generally doesn't bother tracking weapons being damaged from use (you can try to hack away at someone in full plate with a straight razor without issue... although you probably won't get through their DR, given such a weapon has low base damage and low MinST). "The Broken Blade" (Pyramid #3/87) does have some optional rules for this, however, so if using those you could come up with a Technique to allow you to avoid damaging your weapon with strong blows. If you want certain weapons to be treated as lower-quality or otherwise more susceptible to this effect, you could certainly do so, but you're adding a lot of complication for probably minimal return.

[RGTraynor]

(shrugs) 13 years experience swordfighting, for what it's worth, and my take is that GURPS just isn't granular enough a system to make the difference worth much.

Similar odds pertain to most physical contests, I expect. A baseball outfielder who consistently hits .250 is teetering on the edge of replacement level. An outfielder who consistently hits .300 is a star. An outfielder who consistently hits .350 is going to the Hall of Fame. (Hell, Ted Williams is the only player active in the last century who's approached .350 for his career.) And we're talking a spread in dice odds slightly less than between Skill-13 and Skill-15.

In perfect conditions, on the piste, with both parties evenly matched and with similar equipment, the difference might mean one bout in ten.

[The Colonel]

Isn't the question more about balance? That's why axe and mace use the same skill - because they are balanced the same way and designed to deliver a similar strike. Granted the axe user has to worry about blade alignment, but the fighting technique is more or less the same as I understand it.

So the baton, presumably, envisions a weapon balanced like a sword and usable with similar techniques. A baton not so balanced, I would guess, is a club.

As people have pointed out, things like bokken and wasters blur the line between sword and baton (even if they are training weapons) - and weapons like the single-stick were considered an appropriate training for sword fighting.
Also, didn't cane-de-combat, bartisu and similar things borrow heavily from sword fighting techniques ... again, blurring the line between sword and baton?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Isn't the question more about balance? That's why axe and mace use the same skill - because they are balanced the same way and designed to deliver a similar strike. Granted the axe user has to worry about blade alignment, but the fighting technique is more or less the same as I understand it.

Yeah, the skills are largely about balance and handedness, with some oddities thrown in (like shorter swords using a different skill than longer ones, or some weapons with weapon-catching prongs using a different skill than weapons that are otherwise used identically). There are some weapons that blur the line between sword and axe, by being particularly top-heavy swords; I believe GURPS actually has such weapons usable with both skills (I think the khopesh is given this treatment).

As I noted, if you want edge alignment to be a concern, the best way to do that is to impose a (small) penalty to hit with proper alignment, and allow those who favor swords or axes over batons or maces to buy it off with a Technique.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Varyon

As I noted, if you want edge alignment to be a concern, the best way to do that is to impose a (small) penalty to hit with proper alignment, and allow those who favor swords or axes over batons or maces to buy it off with a Technique.

You could just treat it as a familiarity. If you're used to a stick, take a penalty with a sword for a bit; if you're used to double-edge, take a penalty with a single-edge for a bit; etc.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by kenclary

You could just treat it as a familiarity. If you're used to a stick, take a penalty with a sword for a bit; if you're used to double-edge, take a penalty with a single-edge for a bit; etc.

Familiarity is generally per weapon design (thrusting broadsword vs large falchion, say), but doing it based more on various components (double-edge vs single-edge, curved vs straight, balanced vs not-so-balanced, etc) might be an option (I think there are some options to treat Guns this way).