Questions about Innate Attack (Wall)

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by naloth

Aside from both being a real stretch, the wall itself still has very little to do with how freezing/stunning it would be in both cases. Wound modifiers (should but) aren't taken into account and the force/damage is generated by person attacking the wall at whatever level they want.

To me, it makes about the same amount of sense as any Side Effect. The fact the motive force is from the target slamming into it on their own instead of the user shooting an icy spear or whatever at the target is the only difference. Of course, I'm also fine with the idea that a magical flaming spear is more likely to set a target aflame if it hits the Vitals - Side Effect is more about making magical/narrative sense than actual physics-based sense.

Personally, I do (intend to) use Injury rather than Penetrating Damage to determine the penalty for the Side Effect. In fact, I favor using percentage of HP rather than a flat "-1 per 2 damage" - a character with HP 20 takes a -1 per 4 HP of Injury (or what the Injury should have been, if the ability has No Wounding), while one with HP 5 takes -1 per 1 HP of Injury. But that's a tangent for another thread.

Originally Posted by naloth

I've been playing Supers for 30+ years, and this must be the niche case of niches because it hasn't really come up. Besides, speedsters that make a habit of slamming into things at high speed will have defenses to avoid being turned into red mist.

Fair enough. I was thinking more along the lines of speedsters who don't make a habit of Slamming into things - a No Wounding Wall opens that option up to them. Walls that deal cut/imp might also bypass the defenses of a Slam-inclined speedster as well, if the speedster is reliant on DR or IT:DR that is Limited to only work against crushing (-40% to cost) or even only against crushing collisions (as a subset of the above, -60% to cost). I suspect the Bouncing Enhancement for Super Jump (which can be used to make a pretty devastating Slam-heavy speedster) also doesn't work for bouncing off sharp surfaces, but that would be a GM call.
EDIT: Of course, if this is something that is unlikely to ever come up, I could indeed see justification for making No Wounding a +0% modifier for Walls - you lose the "speedster go splat" niche application but gain the "falling person doesn't go splat" niche application (summon a No Wounding Wall beneath a falling person; if it is strong enough they don't break through it, it will arrest their fall safely).

Given the Wall can't cause more damage than the average of the damage the character paid for (and then converted into a rigid Wall), of course, your suggestion of an Alternate Attack for those cases is probably more economical.