Wizard Errata

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

I agree a wizard without knife/sword talent needs 4 dice to hit with or throw a dagger. I disagree he needs 4 dice to draw the dagger in HTH.

Oh I fully agree! My bad. I should have said "attack with" or "roll to hit", not "draw". Just had one of those related sentences from Wizard stuck in my head.

Originally Posted by hcobb

I might be tempted to rule drawing the dagger as an exercise of the Knife talent and that untalented use requires an additional die.

I can't agree with that. We don't make it extra-difficult for anyone else to draw a weapon for which they don't have a talent, only to strike with it. No reason to create an exception rule either under HTH combat, which is nicely straightforward already.

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

I agree a wizard without knife/sword talent needs 4 dice to hit with or throw a dagger. I disagree he needs 4 dice to draw the dagger in HTH. ITL on page 8 says the extra die is for unskilled attacks. ITL on page 36 says it is for unskilled use. I would not characterize taking something out (drawing) as using it. And drawing is definitely not an attack.

Everyone gets a chance to draw a dagger without rolling DX when engaging in HTH.

Defense against HTH ITL p 116
On a 3 or 4, the defender drops his ready weapon and/or shield, but has time to ready his dagger if he has one. He will be able to use it in his next attack. Both figures fall to the ground in the defender’s hex.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by JohnPaulB

Everyone gets a chance to draw a dagger without rolling DX when engaging in HTH.

Defense against HTH ITL p 116
On a 3 or 4, the defender drops his ready weapon and/or shield, but has time to ready his dagger if he has one. He will be able to use it in his next attack. Both figures fall to the ground in the defender’s hex.

JohnPaul,
We were chatting about drawing a dagger when already in HTH. ITL p 117 last paragraph of the first section (same section you are citing). Also see ITL page 103 (option u).

[JustAnotherJarhead]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Adding to that, as Wizard and its reference pages may not even be owned by all players, one had best go by what ITL says anywhere is disagrees with stand-alone Wizard, or Melee too for that matter.

Being that Melee & Wizard are stand alone games, I don't know how we could or should reference an ITL rule to apply to a stand alone game?

[JustAnotherJarhead]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

First edition Wizard also states on page 21:

WEAPONS: A wizard may carry two weapons plus a dagger (his staff counts as a weapon). However, his DX is - 4 with ANY weapon except his staff (of course) and a dagger (which anyone can use).

This however is in reference to using the dagger as a melee weapon, in regular or HTH combat, and probably wasn't intended to confuse anyone over spell casting limits or penalties.

I was always an ITL guy, I came to the game post-Wizard/Melee only timeframe. Does Legacy Edition Wizard have this same assumption as quoted above about The two weapon slots PLUS a dagger (which anyone can use)?

If it's not in LE, I am wondering should we be comparing it to anything Legacy at all?

This might confuse a new player.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherJarhead

Being that Melee & Wizard are stand alone games, I don't know how we could or should reference an ITL rule to apply to a stand alone game?

Assuming a mixed group of players, where some have only read Wizard while others are using ITL, everyone won't be playing by the same exact rules. If a disagreement arises, the GM will have to pick which rule to enforce. Another example of this would be how many spells a player's wizard could know versus what his to hit roll would be with a sword. Under the stand-alone Wizard rules the PC rolls 3d6 to hit and can know as many spells as it's IQ. Under ITL, the same PC has to forget four spells to have room to take the Sword talent, or it has to roll 4d6 to hit anything with the sword. I wouldn't want to be the GM to break the bad news :)

Originally Posted by JustAnotherJarhead

I was always an ITL guy, I came to the game post-Wizard/Melee only timeframe. Does Legacy Edition Wizard have this same assumption as quoted above about The two weapon slots PLUS a dagger (which anyone can use)?

Yes, Legacy Wizard on page 24, and on Reference page 7, say the same things about two weapons and about daggers as original Wizard -- no disagreement there. It's Legacy Wizard Henry is quoting in the original post at the start of this thread.

[Peter von Kleinsmid]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Assuming a mixed group of players, where some have only read Wizard while others are using ITL, everyone won't be playing by the same exact rules. If a disagreement arises, the GM will have to pick which rule to enforce.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Another example of this would be how many spells a player's wizard could know versus what his to hit roll would be with a sword. Under the stand-alone Wizard rules the PC rolls 3d6 to hit and can know as many spells as it's IQ. Under ITL, the same PC has to forget four spells to have room to take the Sword talent, or it has to roll 4d6 to hit anything with the sword. I wouldn't want to be the GM to break the bad news :)

In that specific case, though, in basic Wizard, the wizard would be at -4 DX to use the sword, which is more or less equivalent to having to roll 4 dice.

[hcobb]

A related issue at Wizards Spell Reference Booklet page 7
"Wizard whose weapon or armor is iron or steel, instead of silver an extra -4 to Spellcasting only"
vs
Wizard rulebook page 24: "A wizard cannot cast a spell if he has any weapon (except his staff) ready"

Does this -4 on spellcasting only apply to carrying around an unready steel weapon? (Like say a bunch of daggers?)

[Peter von Kleinsmid]

Originally Posted by hcobb

A related issue at Wizards Spell Reference Booklet page 7
"Wizard whose weapon or armor is iron or steel, instead of silver an extra -4 to Spellcasting only"
vs
Wizard rulebook page 24: "A wizard cannot cast a spell if he has any weapon (except his staff) ready"

Does this -4 on spellcasting only apply to carrying around an unready steel weapon? (Like say a bunch of daggers?)

No. But Wizard also doesn't have any money restrictions, nor suggest that wizards with "a bunch of daggers" is an option, so it's up to players to choose or negotiate what silver weapons a figure has. It's typical to assume a wizard gets one silver dagger.

You wrote "vs", but the two rules you mention don't seem to oppose each other, to me. One says an iron or steel weapon gives a wizard -4 to spellcasting (that would include a non-silver dagger). The other says you can't cast a spell with a weapon (other than a staff) ready. Those are also consistent with ITL.