Making sense of jet and jet-like spells

[Calvin]

I've been going through all the spells that do direct damage, and reading the jet and jet-like spells has only brought up more questions than I started with.

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Lets start with Flame Jet, which is the simplest example, though still not simple.

You use DX-4 or Innate Attack to hit, though it doesn't specify which specalization, we can work out that it's Innate Attack (Jet). You cast the spell, and on your following turn you have a big flaming sword of some indeterminate length. You can then whack someone with it, and if you want it to last longer you can pay to maintain it for subsequent rounds. Working that out took some searching, as I initially thought that you could attack with Jets on the same round they were cast. After all, the duration is only 1 second, but I found some posts on the matter that helped explain things.

But while I could answer that question for myself, I could not find an answer for what happens to characters with ATR or Great Haste.

In combat my character is under the effects of Great Haste whenever I can manage it, which means he's acting twice every turn. Now lets say I start a turn by casting Flame Jet. I now have a Flame Jet in one hand, and a spare action which I use to attack with it. Now I'm on my next turn which is when non-Hasted characters would normally get their first attack with the Jet. Again, I attack with the Flame Jet. Now depending on how long each action is, that's probably be the end of the jet. I finished casting in the middle of my first turn, so it ends one second later in the end of my following turn. Though I could also see people who interpret the jet to last until the end of the second turn, allowing for three total strikes with the jet.

Does it make sense for a character with extra actions to get extra attacks without paying extra maintinence periods on Flame Jet? Is it balanced? I would be inclined to say that a straight reading of the rules allows it. After all, ATR is about the perception of time, not the actual passage of it so 1 second is still 1 second. I'd also say that it's probably balanced. ATR/Great Haste let you do everything twice as much, so I think it makes sense that's true for uses of Flame Jet as well. Though I'd interpret it to allow two swings rather than three.

I still take some issue with not being able to attack with the jet in the round it's cast, after all you've got the jet and it's pointing somewhere. But fine, if that's how the spell works then it's how it works.

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Next is Breathe Fire. A Kromm post here: http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...29&postcount=9 cleared up some questions I had about just how and when you can attack with it, though again it seems weird that you can't attack with it in the same round it's cast. Again you've got a jet of flame going somewhere, and spellcasting already assumes some sort of gesture so it would seem sensible to have those gestures include pointing the jet at whatever it is you want to be on fire.

There's also this line "Caster rolls to hit against DX-2 or Innate Attack skill. This counts as an action;" Counts as an action? Why 'counts as'? Isn't it already an action, a Concentrate action? And why is the to-hit DX-2 and not DX-4?

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Acid Jet at first seems like a copy of Flame Jet, so much that I was going to ignore it. But then I noticed that it does 1 less damage than it's comparable missie spell, Acid Ball. Flame Jet and Fireball do the same amount of damage, so why should Acid Jet do less? Yes, it mentions that face hits might blind due to the acid effects on B428, but surely Acid Ball should do the exact same thing?

Acid Jet does have the knockback effects from Snow Jet, but that hardly seems to justify a -1 per die penalty in damage. Particularly since that reduced damage is only going to make that knockback less useful. With that damage profile you need to put 4FP into the spell to get enough average damage to push even an ST 10 character back a single space.

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Steam Jet at least seems to deserve it's damage penalty. The knockback remains largely pointless, but the blinding effect on a spell that isn't already dealing corrosion damage, combined with the bonus damage against fire and ice creatures makes this a solid choice. It wouldn't be my main jet spell, but it's niche effects are significant enough to warrant learning this in settings where such creatures exist.

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Further trouble comes when you look at their breath equivilents, Breathe Steam and Spit Acid. Unlike Breathe Fire which uses the weird "counts as an action" language, these two instead have the line "Caster rolls to hit against DX-2 or Innate Attack skill (p. B201). This counts as an attack". Again, it mentions the to-hit being DX-2, but I already brought that up above. The main issue at hand is "This counts as an attack". Does that mean that unlike normal Jets, and indeed Breathe Fire, that these spells do in fact deal their damage on the round you cast them? If not, then what does "counts as an attack" mean or refer to? It also makes me wonder if "counts as an action" on Breathe Fire was meant to read "counts as an attack".

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And then there's Icy Breath. Is it a jet, a jet-like, or something completely different? This one also uses the "counts as an attack" language, though this one is DX-4 instead of DX-2. It's also not clear what the range is. I think you're supposed to assume it behaves like a jet, with it being a melee weapon with reach equivlient to the cost of the spell, but that's far from clear.

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And then there's Lighting Stare. Like Icy Breath it uses DX-4, though it doesn't have "counts as attack" or "counts as action", but it does have double range for some reason. It also doesn't say that it has the lighting damage effects from the Lighting spell, though many of the Lighting spells are unclear about which ones have or don't have the side effects.

The other oddity with Lighting Stare is that unlike all other jet spells which do the same damage as their equivilent missile spell, Lighting Stare does 1 more damage. Is this because the lighting effects don't apply to Stare?

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As I've been typing this out I've been trying to summarize all this general confusion into a specific list of questions, but that hasn't been easy. So instead I'll lay out how I think things should be based on a slightly open minded interpretation of RAW and you guys can tell me what you think. Hopefully Kromm will see this and he'll be able to give a clear answer.

Flame Jet (and all other actual Jets) allows for an attack on the following turn, matching the general consensus around Jet spells. ATR/Great Haste also works like I describe above, where it allows you to pack extra attacks into the duration. ATR 1/Great Haste gets you two attacks instead of one, while further levels of ATR would add further attacks.

Acid Jet would do full 1d instead of 1d-1, which probably means that Flame Jet deserves to do 1d6+1 damage. Otherwise it would work as described.

Steam Jet requires no modification.

Breathe Fire, and Spit Acid would get their damage updated to follow the changes to Flame/Acid Jet.

Icy Breath would be a jet-like, with the same sort of FP-based reach, etc.

Everything that says it hits at DX-2 would be ignored unless someone can come up with a good explination for this one. It isn't even consistient among the breath/gaze jet-likes. It's all just Innate Attack (Jet/Gaze/Breath) now and the DX-4 is inferred from the default.

Spit Acid, Icy Breath, and Breathe Steam would all attack on the same round they finish casting based on the "This counts as an attack" wording.

Lightning Stare would also attack on the same round it finishes casting. It lacks the "This counts as an attack" wording, but in every other way fits in the category with the breath-based jets. The double range seems weird, but it's a specific enough addition that I can only assume there's some reason for it so it stays. Lighting Stare would also get the lighting based side effects you see on the spell Lighting. Otherwise it makes no sense for the damage to penalized. (In fact all the Lighting spells should get the side-effect, but that's a little outside the scope)

Breathe Fire would also attack on the same round it finishes casting, contrary to the linked Kromm post, on the basis that "counts as an action" is a weird line to include and it maybe sorta means "This counts as an attack" if you spell the word "attack" really wrong. Also it fits in the category with the others, so it should probably have the same effects.

For casters with sub-20 skill these jet-like spells remain contingencies to be used when your hands arn't free. For casters with skill 20+, they become limited instant-damage spells that are used mostly by spell-swords or by mages who somehow find themselves in melee range.

This does somewhat break the "cast then attack" flow that most of Magic follows, but there are already exceptions to that. Dehydrate, Frostbite, and Explode being good examples, and where those require resistance rolls, these require attack rolls and allow for active defences. I also don't think it's a necessary balancing feature of Magic, at least in melee range where non-magical characters can already deal damage every round, though they obviously don't need to spend FP to do it.