[DF] Lich PCs in DF - Oswald the Violet

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

The high cost of an unenchanted crystal ball in-setting might be due to the fact that glass was harder to make, and thus more expensive, in medieval Europe.

Well made crystal glass vials go for just a mere $5 according to the DF's Adventurers book. A quality glass bottle at that cheap of price seems to suggest that DF's "implied vaguely defined kitchen-sink fantasy setting" is capable of producing such glass items very, very cheaply. The aforementioned hand mirror seems absurdly cheap for a faux-medieval setting, and by RAW it allows Crystal-Gazing at no penalty to skill without need of enchantment. So I interpreted what appears to be in need of errata as an oversight of the authors. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Balor Patch]

If I was the GM I'd say "By the Realm of the Dead and all the Hells, no!"

That buying Energy Reserve needs to be justified in-game is not a limitation on the power at all, much less a -67% one. If the ritual is for recharge then I'd buy it.

The limitations on Magery are also suspect. 1) Splashy for 5% is OK. 2) Between Horrific and SS Dead hardly anyone will care that its magic is also obviously Evil. Besides, a reputation hit doesn't affect the use of the power and, rather than scale with it, should be a separate Unnatural Features disadvantage. 3) The character always has Weirdness Magnet so requiring it in no way limits the power. This just makes a [-15] disadvantage into a [-25] one without in any way changing the effects.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

If I was the GM I'd say "By the Realm of the Dead and all the Hells, no!"

That buying Energy Reserve needs to be justified in-game is not a limitation on the power at all, much less a -67% one. If the ritual is for recharge then I'd buy it.

The limitations on Magery are also suspect. 1) Splashy for 5% is OK. 2) Between Horrific and SS Dead hardly anyone will care that its magic is also obviously Evil. Besides, a reputation hit doesn't affect the use of the power and, rather than scale with it, should be a separate Unnatural Features disadvantage. 3) The character always has Weirdness Magnet so requiring it in no way limits the power. This just makes a [-15] disadvantage into a [-25] one without in any way changing the effects.

You're not exactly just buying it. You pay for an amount of ritual trappings... then you must perform the ritualistic act of Evil. No skill roll required for the preparations, but it does need to be convincing enough to sway the forces of Evil to imbue you with its darkness. With the example items given, Oswald would need to organize a time and place in which he would be able to perform such a ritual. Draw magical circle with the expensive chalk, light the fancy candles, and make sure that virgin sacrifice isn't going anywhere. Maybe Oswald recites some convincingly Evil chanting, then drives a sharp object into the victim to kill them. The other characters more likely then not will also have to take the time to aid in this endeavor, unless Oswald pays hirelings to do his bidding. That's a lot of work.

Limited Energy Reserve, not my variant listed here, is from the Magical Styles book. I simply swapped the "One Style Only" part that's baked into the trait and swapped it with a equivalent amount of Limitations. That still leaves all the other limiting factors already baked into Limited Energy Reserve, so it's fine in that regard. If he somehow disguised himself (and perhaps also with something to hide his aura) so he could sneak into Town, he'd likely not want to risk exposing himself by publicly casting magic. Regular Wizards have the privilege of utilizing their magic in wholesome society as they please, but a Evil Wizard (lich or not) has to be secretive.

Weirdness Magnet is warranted because without it you invalidate the LER (BM). If you buy it off, or it is otherwise removed for in game reasons, you no longer get the privilege of using your edgy ER. Maybe Oswald pisses off the wrong deity and they (literally?) smack the magnetic-ness straight outta him, or mess with his inherent aura that causes the omens around him and shady people to now ignore him rather than be drawn to him.

The limitation on Magery is to limit its usage to only the LER (BM). So no spending any FP (not that that matters), no burning HP, no Power Item energy, no gifted energy, etc. He has to power his magic purely with evil energy.

Some of what you say either doesn't make sense or is difficult to parse, so I hope my responses are properly informed. I would've included these details in the Designer's Notes but they had to be cut because SJG forum's post size limit. I figured it was obvious stuff but apparently not.

[Tymathee]

It might help if I lay things out in a simpler way besides fat blocks of wordy text.

Limited Energy Reserve (Black Magic) consists of the following:

• The Limited Energy Reserve magic perk, from GURPS Thaumatology: Magical Styles, pg. 27
• The inherent "One Style Only" aspect of the Perk was substituted by a combined amount of -40% in Limitations, as previously detailed in this thread
• The remaining inherent limiting factors of the original Perk amount to: being unable to share or transfer this energy. Which makes it worthless for powering magical items, ceromonial magic, or otherwise gifting the energy

Hopefully this is more transparent and less opaque with the details. The trait was already inherently balanced in regards to point balance but I used my judgement to say that if you want to buy it in play, you need to cough up your time, money, and sacrifice your morals to get it. Still totally fine to buy it in char gen with just points. Same deal for the Magery.

I think I explained why the -80% on Magery makes sense pretty well already, but I'll restate it just in case. He literally can only use his LER (BM) to power his spells, nothing else. A regular Wizard has his FP to spend, HP to burn, his Power Item to use, any gifted energy... Oswald isn't working with any of that. -80% seems perfectly reasonable.

[Tymathee]

Thankfully no one has scrutinized the prerequisite chains of my spell selection yet, so for the sake of continued transparency Kromm's Wizardry Refined Pyramid article from issue 3/60 was utilized for this character. For those not savvy to the details of the article, it basically goes into better detail as to how Wizards ought to be balanced in DF mostly by restructuring spell prerequisite chains and effectively errata'ing some spell effects that would be particularly offensive in DF.

One hard lesson with posting content to the forum is that I need to be very, very meticulous with my notetaking. No detail is too obvious or trivial to omit. I just don't want my experience on the forum to be a exercise in writing highly comprehensive legalese though... but that's part of the nature of GURPS I suppose. Too bad! I can't expect people to just read my mind, but I don't want to talk down to people as if they don't know any better, or come off as a know-it-all jerk. Some deep meta commentary there.

[JulianLW]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

If I was the GM I'd say "By the Realm of the Dead and all the Hells, no!"

Your game, your rules. But, to me, it doesn't sound much like the game other people are playing.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

Your game, your rules. But, to me, it doesn't sound much like the game other people are playing.

Frankly, I'm tired of being unfairly patronized. Please refrain from such comments.

As I've previously detailed in, summarized in brief:

In order to acquire LER (BM) or Magery with the associated Limitation in play, the character must acquire ritual trappings (minimum of $500 for LER (BM) and minimum of $1000 for Magery) and conduct a ritualistic act of significant Evil.

For example of acquiring an additional level of LER (BM), Oswald has somehow obtained some black market unholy ceremonial candles, expensive high art chalk, and bought a virgin sacrifice from some orc slavers that he'll drive a glimmering crimson dagger into. He's organized a time and place to perform the heinous ritual, and has either enlisted the help of his adventuring companions to conduct it or has hired some willing hirelings to assist. He draws the unholy magic circle, lights the ceremonial candles, and has had assistance in tying down the victim within the confines of the circle. He chants some convincing Evil words of power, then drives the blade into the sacrifice killing them. A character point is then spent to raise the level of LER (BM). There's a emphasis on the nuance of the roleplaying on this (it must appease the forces of Evil), and each batch of supplies is unique to each ritualistic act of Evil, so no reusing old ritual trappings. Magery with the associated modifier follows the same scheme.

This essentially is a refluffed interpretation of the training expenses rules detailed in the third DF supplement.

I'll also once again restate that his Magery is capped at a level a regular Wizard can rightfully acquire during character generation before even consulting the Power-Ups supplement, and he also is not working with the same quality or amount of energy a regular Wizard starts with.

[JulianLW]

Traits are not priced on how difficult it would be to get higher levels. The traits you do have are not priced according to the traits you don't have. For example, you don't get a discount on the DX if there's a racial limit on DX. And I don't think traits should be discounted because you have a higher training expense or whatever than someone else. That sounds like a feature to me.

From Basic 261:

"A 'taboo trait' is an attribute level, advantage, disadvantage, or skill that is off-limits to members of the race. This, too, is worth 0 points. Normally, only mundane traits are labeled 'taboo,' as exotic or supernatural traits require the GM’s permission in any case."

I'm sorry if you feel patronized, so I'll let it go with that.

[Tymathee]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

Traits are not priced on how difficult it would be to get higher levels. The traits you do have are not priced according to the traits you don't have. For example, you don't get a discount on the DX if there's a racial limit on DX. And I don't think traits should be discounted because you have a higher training expense or whatever than someone else. That sounds like a feature to me.

From Basic 261:

"A 'taboo trait' is an attribute level, advantage, disadvantage, or skill that is off-limits to members of the race. This, too, is worth 0 points. Normally, only mundane traits are labeled 'taboo,' as exotic or supernatural traits require the GM’s permission in any case."

I'm sorry if you feel patronized, so I'll let it go with that.

I never said it was a Taboo Trait. He simply purchased a level of Magery acceptable for a 250 point Wizard at char gen.

These are just "training expenses" as per the optional rules for spending character points for advancement, and were not taken into consideration for the pricing of these traits.

Thank you.