Fantastic Dungeon Grappling & Technical Grappling

[RedMattis]

The quick-version of Strangle in FDG returns to this concept, and Constriction attack in FDG just says "yah, you can do this by crushing the BODY, not just the NECK." It's simpler, requires no special cases, and closer to both the Basic Set and the (more pertinent) rules for Suffocation on Exploits p. 70.

This makes the Constriction advantage rather underwhelming though? You're paying a lot of points for the ability to choke a fairly limited group of targets without targeting the neck.

<weapons>

So, if I grapple with the hook of a Halberd (which I assume the opponent can't just back out of, since its a hook?) do I roll damage based on my regular wrestling bonus + base thrust, or do I roll the halberds more impressive damage?

[Exxar]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

So, if I grapple with the hook of a Halberd (which I assume the opponent can't just back out of, since its a hook?) do I roll damage based on my regular wrestling bonus + base thrust, or do I roll the halberds more impressive damage?

You roll thrust appropriate for your ST + Lifting ST based on the Judo or Melee Weapon progression as per page 3 of FDG. The non-control damage of weapons is not used for anything.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I've used both in campaigns and I think it was in my AEON supers game where we (Doug and I) started stripping down TG to be simpler for the other players. I know we were using some ideas Peter Dell'Orto had and eventually Doug wrote up Dungeon Grappling. FDG didn't come around until the next campaign where we used it instead of the base rules from then on.

I've probably used it more than any GM that isn't Doug at this point as I've run hundreds of sessions and it was adopted for use before it was released to the public. It's a good system and it mirrors how grappling really works (and you don't have to worry about things like "Grip ST") and it's simple. You don't always get those two in the same package, much less well-built to boot.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

This makes the Constriction advantage rather underwhelming though? You're paying a lot of points for the ability to choke a fairly limited group of targets without targeting the neck.

In the DFRPG, Constriction Attack (Monsters, p. 10) effects coincide almost entirely with the Strangle reference from FDG. If there's a problem with cost, that's a bit tangential for this game as it's a Monster trait not found in the Adventurers book.

So, if I grapple with the hook of a Halberd (which I assume the opponent can't just back out of, since its a hook?) do I roll damage based on my regular wrestling bonus + base thrust, or do I roll the halberds more impressive damage?

As Exxar said: Neither one. You roll thrust based on your (Lifting) ST, modified for skill as per Melee Weapon.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

In the DFRPG, Constriction Attack (Monsters, p. 10) effects coincide almost entirely with the Strangle reference from FDG. If there's a problem with cost, that's a bit tangential for this game as it's a Monster trait not found in the Adventurers book.

Don't have the DFRPG main books, only the GURPS ones. I mostly bought the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling book because it was a simplified version of the Technical Grappling one.

Anyway, does strangling take an action, or it is a free action anyone can do it when they grapple the right location? It is a bit unclear to me based on what FDG says.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

Don't have the DFRPG main books, only the GURPS ones. I mostly bought the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling book because it was a simplified version of the Technical Grappling one.

Sensible! But the book is written in the context of larger-than-life fantasy exploits based on a specific ruleset, in this case the Dungeon Fantasy RPG.

Anyway, does strangling take an action, or it is a free action anyone can do it when they grapple the right location? It is a bit unclear to me based on what FDG says.

It's an attack that takes your entire turn, definitely not a free action. I'd rule you can't do it twice (Rapid Strike to strangle twice, for example).

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Sensible! But the book is written in the context of larger-than-life fantasy exploits based on a specific ruleset, in this case the Dungeon Fantasy RPG.

Do you have a list of differences between the rules for GURPS and the DFRPG in regards to grappling somewhere? They're very similar, but it's when things are very similar that I start overlooking differences, because I assumed I knew how things work.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

Do you have a list of differences between the rules for GURPS and the DFRPG in regards to grappling somewhere? They're very similar, but it's when things are very similar that I start overlooking differences, because I assumed I knew how things work.

I don't. I don't have a license to write for regular GURPS, just Powered by GURPS, so I haven't really focused on anything mainstream GURPS since 2012 or so.

It'd be an interesting examination, but not one I have time for at the moment!

[RedMattis]

I think I missed the fact that you don't have to spend CP for strangling unlike "Injure the Foe". That does make strangling significantly better, and the ability to do so without getting hold of the neck (-5 to target) is actually worth something.

Probably enemies with carapace or solid armor would reduce this damage though, so it compares unfavorably to the neck for armored opponents.

Anyway, how does grappling with the torso work with stuff like "Number of Limbs"? If a snake-person grapples with both arms and tail, is that 3 limbs? If I wanted a snake tail to count for more would I buy that as some sort of limited version of Extra Arm?

How about leg grapples? Let's say we have a giant spider that wants to pin an opponent. It has 8 legs and a mouth, but no fine manipulators/arms.

[RedMattis]

Btw. when using the optional "Knowing Your Own Strength", what thresholds would you suggest for Lifting ST when using Grab and Go etc.? KYOS-Lifting ST scales up dramatically faster, so a straight multiple seems overkill. Each 10x ST multiplies Lift by 10 after all...

+3 ST is already 100% increase in lifting ST.

I guess the easy, if a bit 'game-y', solution is to just double the relative levels of ST for everything (since KYOS Lifting ST costs 7/level under KYOS instead of 3/level).

Though if so I still feel like something like Grab & Go would be better based on basic lift. Maybe instead of doing percentages we could just say +3 ST (rounded to +4 if doubling relative levels...) lets you make a full move. -2 ST means you can only take a step.