[DF] How long do the different races live?

[Polkageist]

Originally Posted by Opellulo

Not DF specific but I was always fascinated by the age cycles of fantasy races. Let's go with a "vanilla high elf": if you put his old age at 650 years and then scale back all his age cycle by ten, then you have a lot of very funny scenarios:

- Baby Elf needs someone to change his/her diapers for more than 30 years... That's a nightmare scenario worst of any great horror out there.
- Child Elf will swing from seesaws for about 70 years, are there enough trees for that?
- Teenager elf is expected at sit for at least 70 years in high school (or its setting relative) and I let you sink in that nightmare.

Yeah I know that there was something like "early maturation" that was a band-aid to justify this concept, but that opens another can of worms on the feasibility of that kind of societies: your body is adult at 18 but nobody takes you seriously for another 200 years... That's a ready recipe for social disaster.

TL/DR version: fantasy species makes no sense, always blame Tolkien for that and the some more.

It is a very funny scenario, and I will laugh as much as anyone at some poor beleaguered elf mother changing diapers for the 27th year in a row, and looking forward to dealing with a sulky adolescent for the better part of a century.

To put the notion of 'early maturation' in the category of a band-aid is a disservice to both the comedy of the silly numbers, and the creativity of creating a fantasy race and society that is distinctly NOT human.

To the point, physical, mental, and social maturation all take place at different rates. An elf may be physically mature within a couple of decades, perhaps growing out of the little kid phase to the lanky teen-ish physicality and stall there for a while, perfectly physically capable of self-care but slight compared to a fully mature adult. That final growth spurt doesn't come at 18, but maybe 28 or 38. Mentally they may mature slower as well, staying flexible and learning far longer, or simply have an ingrained deference to their elders. They're not human, their mental faculties during maturation do not need to be human-like, they can by their nature be adapted to their pace of growth. A teenage elf doesn't have the hormone rages that a teenage human has because they don't have those hormones! They have elf hormones, maturing them at an elf pace, and that's different.

Finally, the social thing bothers me because it assumes that elf society is just like human society and hasn't adapted to having more and different social strata that deal with their nature of having long maturity levels. Think that elves haven't figured out how to deal with disaffected youth? For every freshman that has looked up to a senior classman, there's no reason that elves at the high end of their age cohort aren't looked up to, and aren't taken seriously by their near-youths. Elf society may very well be divided up into several different social and political strata where the eldest among them are the respected leaders before they age out and move to the next social strata (note, not a move up or down, simply a move) that may have a disconnected set of responsibilities and honors they enjoy. What do younger elves do? Go out and see the world! Adventure, interact, learn, and participate in other societies. Middle-aged elves, they often come home and may be the engines of the elven societies, making up the cohort that builds and protects the homes using the skills and experiences they acquired in their youth. The eldest of those then move on to other things, perhaps the politicians, perhaps they go back out into the world where their wisdom and experiences make them incredibly capable of dealing with non-elves in a diplomatic or otherwise fashion. And perhaps this is all turned upside down and as an elf ages the younger cohort explicitly pushes them aside while they relax into a contemplative retirement. What? Don't they have ambition and a desire to hold on to power? Of course not, what a human concept. Leadership and action is a job for the young, our old bones are not meant for such things.

Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Greg 1

How long do you think the natural lifespan is of the various PC races in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy?

Races that are near PCs have shorter lifespans overall.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

I think that is a good point for elves et. al. Maybe they are all unaging, but practically speaking they live a median age to 35. Dying either to war, hunting accidents, super-diseases, magical disasters, dragon-attacks, etc.

If humans in a medieval setting were unaging you probably wouldn't see most people live terribly long. There might be the rare ruler who ruled for 300 years, immediately followed by a dozen guys who ruled for less than a decade before getting poisoned, executed, or just dying to smallpox along with most of the population.

In that situation you'd still see the normal age-groups, except that you'd have a rare few scholars, craftsmen, wizards, or elven rulers hiding in marble palaces. But the regular people generally aren't incredibly old.

That's not even that uncommon of a trope. I really like this set up.

[Michael Thayne]

It's worth remembering that Dungeon Fantasy isn't like early editions of D&D where magically curing disease requires a 5th level cleric, who will initially only be able to cast the spell once or twice a day. In DF, Cure Disease only costs 4 FP and can be cast by a henchmen-level caster (any druidic Initiate can learn it, as can an Initiate cleric who spends optional advantage points on another level of Power Investiture). Because of that and similar considerations, I tend to assume humans in Dungeon Fantasy have close to TL8 life expectancy, and races with Unaging can easily live a few centuries before accident or violence claims them. Of course frequent monster attacks can lead to a different model of DF life expectancy.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

It's worth remembering that Dungeon Fantasy isn't like early editions of D&D where magically curing disease requires a 5th level cleric, who will initially only be able to cast the spell once or twice a day. In DF, Cure Disease only costs 4 FP and can be cast by a henchmen-level caster (any druidic Initiate can learn it, as can an Initiate cleric who spends optional advantage points on another level of Power Investiture). Because of that and similar considerations, I tend to assume humans in Dungeon Fantasy have close to TL8 life expectancy, and races with Unaging can easily live a few centuries before accident or violence claims them. Of course frequent monster attacks can lead to a different model of DF life expectancy.

If assume the NPCs make good use of the GURPS magic system (heck it is similar for D&D!) the world would look a bit unlike what most people expect. Not just curing disease, but mages going around using move-earth and similar spells to build infrastructure. It gets even more outrageous if you have entire races where everyone has Magery 1 f.ex. The TL would skyrocket, and it you just end up having to explain why a 2000 year old dwarven society is still TL3.

That... is fine. I have a fantasy setting where magic is abused by some groups to a high degree. But it is also common for settings like this to have all these amazing powers but no one abuses the utility of the powers like you'd expect. Perhaps the gods don't like it or something. Or maybe it is just a genre assumption.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

If assume the NPCs make good use of the GURPS magic system (heck it is similar for D&D!) the world would look a bit unlike what most people expect. Not just curing disease, but mages going around using move-earth and similar spells to build infrastructure. It gets even more outrageous if you have entire races where everyone has Magery 1 f.ex. The TL would skyrocket, and it you just end up having to explain why a 2000 year old dwarven society is still TL3.

That... is fine. I have a fantasy setting where magic is abused by some groups to a high degree. But it is also common for settings like this to have all these amazing powers but no one abuses the utility of the powers like you'd expect. Perhaps the gods don't like it or something. Or maybe it is just a genre assumption.

Actually that is exactly what Equivalent TL (ETL) is designed for.

Equivalent TL is a concept introduced in GURPS Fantasy p. 66 where magic is so common that it is effectively technology in of itself. As such it is a form of Divergent Technology but may not reflect the "actual" TL if you ignore the magic.

"Look at a number of commonly used spells, assign them to approximate TL equivalents, and see if these cluster around one or two TLs as usually defined; if so, use a rough equivalent TL in that range. If that doesn’t work, the TL concept may not fit the setting." It is advised that the GM should avoid assuming the setting will simply be 'just like TLx but with wizards'

And as Magery 0 Magic in Worldbuilding shows even Magery 0 spells can drastically change things. Preserve Food would change so many things in TL3 that odds are it wouldn't be ETL3.

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by martinl

Races that are near PCs have shorter lifespans overall.

Individuals too.