What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I'm not sure where either of those interpretations are. Powers doesn't point out Resistant as not allowed to someone with that power source and it would fly in the face of how Resistant normally works if you are "immune" to the good stuff (just like it was pointed out to me that being immune to drugs shouldn't make you "immune" to 1-up mushrooms). Static is particularly not allowed and is far more encompassing than Resistant.

Magery does not allow for the development of Immunity (Magic) (Powers, p. 111) and specifically forbids in on Powers, p. 72 for magical systems that require the channeling of magical energy. If you want that type of defense, take Magical Resistance (Improved), which is allowed in RPM. In general, passive abilities are not switchable, and I would honestly require the Discretionary (+150%) modifier to have Immunity ignore non-hazardous effects (similar to Static). If you have Immunity to Poison, you cannot get drunk, high, or benefit from painkillers, because it is always on and always interfering with any potentially poisonous substance, so the same would apply to Immunity (Magic).

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Sorcery is built by RAW, and a cosmic MA is expensive. The designers feared that sort of universal toolbox, and for a reason. (See the complaints upthread about this or that magic system upstaging niche templates.) But that factor of 10x may be a bit much. I've never had anyone take an MA in a game, nor wanted to, myself, because they're just so expensive. 10x means you could stack 46 abilities in an AA group before it caught up to that price. Flexibility has value, but it also has diminishing returns.

if only it was x10, it'd be better. Truly cosmic modular abilities is x20, because having access to both physical and mental traits is +100%. I see modular abilities used most often to buy skills, and occasionally languages.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Realm magic without FP is an option, but Realm magic is really expensive from a CP point of view even without a FP cost (its effects are still limited by the level of the effect, as is the casting time). I am not sure that, with 400 CP of IQ and magical traits, what would happen if a Realm magic w/o FP went up against a RPM mage. Heck, I am not sure what would happen if they went up against a standard mage.

I'm reading those rules more carefully (I usually use the equivalent of "the stuff of raw magic" with realm magic). Realm magic without FP is just turning on all of the skill-based costs for magic, not letting them cast giant spells for free. That lessens how powerful I thought it was.

And I'm looking at the ultimate cost of the realms, and it may be a touch high. Actually, its less of the cost of the realms being too high and more of that for advantages that cost that much I'd have expected better discounts on casting times, energy costs, and skill penalties.

Let us examine a standard mage with 400 CP in IQ and magical traits. They purchase IQ 20, Luck, Magery 3, and Magical Resistance 10 (Improved, +150%), for a total of 300 CP, leaving them with 100 CP for other magical traits. At that point, they are capable of mastering several colleges without major effort and, because of their high base skill, they can reduce spell cost by 2 FP per casting. With their Magical Resistance, they are also immune to the majority of spells, meaning that anyone who attempts to attack them directly with magic suffers a -10 penalty to skill. While a RPM mage will have better buffs and have conditional rituals, charms, and/or potions, it would really be difficult to say which mage would be better. I think that both would be better than the Realm mage (even w/o FP), just because the Realm mage must spend so many points purchasing the Realms.

Whether nor not Magic Resistance is appropriate with a given magic system is an interesting question. Magic resistance is more common on Monster Hunter templates than DF ones, with the DF wizard lacking it as an option in his advantage list, and the witch having it. I do think that magic resistance is more suited for spell-based magic than advantage based.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Taneli

I'm considering having a variant of RPM in my next fantasy themed campaign, where:

• To cast a spell you must either know it*, have a source available for it (essentially, a spellbook), or it is a cantrip you improvised

This is one of my favorite tweaks to RPM. I've seen it in a number of places, and I've never run a solid game with it, but it looks really solid.

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

then give them a useful amount of TK and a couple of signature spells as abilities and you've got Dresden, Willow, any witch from Supernatural or Vampire Diaries Ever, etc. Give them more stuff off the supermage mystic template and power up the cp available in their grimoire and you've got any comic book mage.

A lot of mages in fiction really don't have the flexibility we've come to expect out of an RPG magic system, and that's often where magic as powers shines

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by ericthered

[/LIST]A lot of mages in fiction really don't have the flexibility we've come to expect out of an RPG magic system, and that's often where magic as powers shines

The amount of magic in TV that really boils down to "TK and sometimes they will do a plot relevant ritual" which could literally be like... TK and Wild Talent (Ability Use, abilities only, immediate preparation required [for the ritual], requires reference materials for appropriate ritual) is extremely high. Also, having played with that in game it feels way better in play than it looks on paper. Throw on one or two more tricks and some ESP and you really feel like a witch or magician. Especially if you also use Power Stunts and give them some ER for stunting.

[AlexanderHowl]

The Magical Powers Talent from Fantasy (p. 159) pretty much covers most TV mages. For example, you could have TK 20 (Magical, -10%) [90] as the base ability and have any number of Afflictions as Alternative Abilities (all Afflictions are legal abilities) and, if you have a campaign with the Temporary Enhancements and Using Abilities at a Default optional rules, you could improvise any Affliction. A healing spell might be Affliction (Advantage, Regeneration, Fast, +500%; Malediction 1, +100%; Magical, -10%) [69], which would 14 CP as an alternative ability. An agony spell might be Affliction (Agony, +100%; Cone, 25 yards, +290%; Malediction 2, +150%; Magical, -10%; Selective Area, +20%) [65], which would be 13 CP as an alternative ability. It would be a bit like Sorcery, though it would require some flexibility of thought.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The Magical Powers Talent from Fantasy (p. 159) pretty much covers most TV mages. For example, you could have TK 20 (Magical, -10%) [90] as the base ability and have any number of Afflictions as Alternative Abilities (all Afflictions are legal abilities) and, if you have a campaign with the Temporary Enhancements and Using Abilities at a Default optional rules, you could improvise any Affliction. A healing spell might be Affliction (Advantage, Regeneration, Fast, +500%; Malediction 1, +100%; Magical, -10%) [69], which would 14 CP as an alternative ability. An agony spell might be Affliction (Agony, +100%; Cone, 25 yards, +290%; Malediction 2, +150%; Magical, -10%; Selective Area, +20%) [65], which would be 13 CP as an alternative ability. It would be a bit like Sorcery, though it would require some flexibility of thought.

Yeah. I've done that in a one shot and it worked beautifully. We had each mage pick a theme for their magic and add appropriate modifiers to their TK, for example one of them was a plant mage and his TK had animation and plants only on it. Then any abilities they wanted to do off of them had to fit the theme somehow.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

If you have Immunity to Poison, you cannot get drunk, high, or benefit from painkillers, because it is always on and always interfering with any potentially poisonous substance, so the same would apply to Immunity (Magic).

I'd allow many painkillers to still work - their mechanism of pain reduction is separate from their toxicity, so in non-toxic doses they'd pass.

The thing is, if any potentially toxic substance in any quantity is defeated in all ways, the character dies because oxygen is toxic, water is toxic, etc.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Magery does not allow for the development of Immunity (Magic) (Powers, p. 111) and specifically forbids in on Powers, p. 72 for magical systems that require the channeling of magical energy. If you want that type of defense, take Magical Resistance (Improved), which is allowed in RPM. In general, passive abilities are not switchable, and I would honestly require the Discretionary (+150%) modifier to have Immunity ignore non-hazardous effects (similar to Static). If you have Immunity to Poison, you cannot get drunk, high, or benefit from painkillers, because it is always on and always interfering with any potentially poisonous substance, so the same would apply to Immunity (Magic).

I'm not sure where on p111 you are talking about, but p72 says "often" which is actually kind of backwards with how common magic is its own anti power. Plus Resistant doesn't cover nearly as many threats as Static, so I don't think it should be anywhere as costly as it (since Static already takes that enhancement to allow friendly spells).

Unless your point is that Immunity doesn't affect friendly spells and you only can't turn it off for hazardous spells. Then I apologize for making that assumption.

[AlexanderHowl]

Immunity (Magic) effects all magic.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Immunity (Magic) effects all magic.

That seems pretty bad for 30pts (again, compare Static) and doesn't even make sense with the rules. Resistant blatantly only affects certain things, namely "noxious effects within a particular catgeory" and to resist those attacks. As recent thread has shown me, helpful spells don't have the ability to be resisted and don't have the modifiers that would let Resistant stop non-resistable effects.

On that note, as pointed above, RPM is likely the strongest magical system (that or maybe syntactic verb/noun magic without FP costs) largely for being able to get around many of the antimagic problems that exist due to sheer versatility in what you can do. Many forms of anitmagic only work against certain ways a spell is cast on something with Static and Mana Dampener being the best "stop all angles" approaches.