[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: No-Mana Shutdown

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

GURPS Magic is incorrect. Sanctity based spells and magic items do work in no mana areas as long as the Sanctity is not none and even there there is a big exception: Objects of Power..

That's because even though they use magic mechanics they aren't magic. They're holy.

[AlexanderHowl]

The same applies to the default rules for RPM, magical items only stop working in desecrated areas (which are just as likely to be no mana or no sanctity areas as very high man or very high sanctity areas).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's because even though they use magic mechanics they aren't magic. They're holy.

Except when you look at GURPS Thaumatology which shows how you got from Magery to Power Investiture that argument falls apart as in many respects Sanctity can be viewed as a form of extremely aspected mana

In fact in the RAW there is nothing that prevents Power Investiture (Mana Replaces Sanctity) from existing and it can be argued this is the way Isis of the Roma Arcana setting operates. Heck, for all we know her Objects of Power effect Mana not Sanctity.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The same applies to the default rules for RPM, magical items only stop working in desecrated areas (which are just as likely to be no mana or no sanctity areas as very high man or very high sanctity areas).

Uh no. "For the purpose of standard magic, a desecrated area is considered no mana, most places are normal mana, a place of power (pp. 32-33) that gives +1 to +3 is high mana, and one that gives +4 or +5 is very high mana." (RPM p. 43)

Now there is a variation: "Mana level and Ritual Path energy-gathering modifiers do not have to be conflated! Even if both types of magic exist in a campaign, the GM may rule that their “ambient energies” are totally unlinked; e.g., a grove might be low mana (for standard magic) but a +2 place of power (for Ritual Path magic). This is especially likely if the two represent very different traditions (e.g., holy vs. Hermetic)."

But with the tools Thaumatology provides one can put together something akin to the AD&D1 system where "All magic and cleric spells are similar in that the word sounds, when combined into whatever patterns are applicable, are charged with energy from the Positive or Negative Material Plane. When uttered, these sounds cause the release of this energy, which in turn triggers a set reaction. The release of the energy contained in these words is what causes the spell to be forgotten or the writing to disappear from the surface upon which it is written."

This is a form of Energy Accumulation magic but the local mana and sanctity doesn't matter. Rather functionality is dependent on how good the connections to the planes that power the magic are.

The Slayer's anime has a form of arcane magic where one channels the power of a Dark Lords but there is also Holy and Shamanistic magic as well. Heck, in "Wandering Around? The Runaway Shrine Takes a Trip!" of Slayers a Temple turns out to be a train and the crystal there absorb all magic arcane and divine to power it.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

Except when you look at GURPS Thaumatology which shows how you got from Magery to Power Investiture that argument falls apart as in many respects Sanctity can be viewed as a form of extremely aspected mana.

But if you chose to define magic that way there would be no such thing as a no mana area.

[AlexanderHowl]

As said in the Mana Level sidebar in RPM (p. 43), the relationship of mana levels and RPM (and the associated modifiers) are suggestions (meaning that they are not the default rules). While GMs are perfectly free to associate mana levels and RPM, I generally loathe the idea of having every form of magic depending on mana levels nowadays and much prefer having consecration and sanctity being independent of mana. In fact, I tend to make sure that concentration is by tradition and sanctity is by faith, resulting in a complex and sophisticated system of multiple magics.

For example, a witch could practice either standard magic, RPM, or divine magic. If she practices standard magic, she needs Magery (Standard) and worries about mana levels (and her magic items shut down in no mana areas). If she practices RPM, she needs Magery (RPM) and worries about consecrated areas for her tradition (and her magic items shut down in desecrated areas for her tradition). If she practices divine magic, she needs Power Investiture (Faith) and worries about sanctified areas for her faith (and her magic items shut down in no sanctity areas for her faith).

All three types of could exist in the same setting and, in settings with all three, you have a complex and sophisticated relationship between magic and its practitioners. In fact, the diversity of practices could explain why magic is considered nonexistent in a secret magic campaign, as there is low generalizability (what helps or hinders one practitioners may not help or hinder another practitioner). If you have the average laboratory being no mana, desecrated, and no sanctity, the result is that magic does not effectively exist within scientific labs, even if it exists outside of scientific labs.