In which I post about a TL9 solar system - Page 8

AlexanderHowl · 08-05-2020, 08:37 AM

One habitat would be for barge personnel/reserve carrier personnel while the second habitat would be for carrier services. Ideally, anyone who is scheduled to transfer to and from a carrier would wait in the barge rather than taking a spacecraft directly to the carrier. While they are not stealthy, carriers would probably want to keep a low profile during their patrols.

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-05-2020, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

One habitat would be for barge personnel/reserve carrier personnel while the second habitat would be for carrier services. Ideally, anyone who is scheduled to transfer to and from a carrier would wait in the barge rather than taking a spacecraft directly to the carrier. While they are not stealthy, carriers would probably want to keep a low profile during their patrols.

Alright, thanks. I guess by "carrier services" you mean cells (brigs or prisoners of war, depending on who's in them), recreation rooms, possibly a lab or two, offices (administration, intelligence analysis, and strategy), and sickbays?

Comments will be limited for today due to IRL, but I'll try to keep up.

AlexanderHowl · 08-05-2020, 10:26 AM

Pretty much, as a carrier with only one habitat has limited capabilities for long term operations, so you need something extra for normal operations.

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-10-2020, 08:24 PM

Note: Updates to this thread have been moved to a more sane, slower, and more regular schedule. Expect one update Monday; any other updates will be as and when they happen.
Note2: The Belter Timberwolf courtesy of AlexanderHowl; the formatting, critique, and commentary by me.

TL 9, Fighter (patrol), SM+6 unstreamlined hull, 20 yards.

Spacecraft Table

Code:

TL  Spacecraft              dST/HP  Hnd/SR  HT  Move        Lwt.    Load    SM  Occ   dDR   Range   Cost
Timberwolf Patrol Fighter   30/30   0/4     11  2G/4.8mps   100t    3.4t    +6  4     7     --      $4,850K

Code:

Front Hull      System ($2,460)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 7, hardened) ($200K)
[2]             Tactical Comm/Sensor Array (3 workspaces, comm/sensory Level 6) ($1,000K)
[3]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[4]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[5]             Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K)
[6]             Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K)

Code:

Central Hull    System ($1,570K)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 7, hardened) ($200K)
[2]             Hanger Bay (3t capacity, 3t launch rate) ($10K)
[3]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[4]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[5]             Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K)
[6]             Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K)
[core]          Habitat (1 bunkroom) ($100K)

Code:

Rear Hull       System ($820K)
[1]             Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 7, hardened) ($200K)
[4]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[3]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[4]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[4]             Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K)
[6]             HEDM Chemical Rocket (2G acceleration) ($300K)
[core]          Control Room (2 control stations, Complexity 5 computer network, comm/sensory Level 4 (backup)) ($200K)

The Timberwolf fighter was based on the idea of overwhelming firepower in overwhelming amounts. As such, while it could defeat any light craft it could range on, it was something of a "glass cannon", and had no ability to confront heavier craft, aside from picking off exposed systems - a task at which, it must be said, it was not incapable. The initial Belter anti-shipping fighter, however, was the Sabertooth. A later elite variant of the Timberwolf, the "Direwolf", replaced the six forward turrets with two fixed major batteries. These cannons enabled the Direwolf to be a direct threat to enemy warships at close range.

Opponents of the Timberwolf design noted potential flaws, including:

It could not survive its own armament for more than a brief contact.
It had almost no defensive systems.

After-action reports resulted in the confirmation of the following benefits:

Its point-defence was sufficient against almost any missile fire.
Its four very rapid fire turrets gave it a powerful punch against any close-range enemy, and even against exposed systems of heavier ships.

After-action reports resulted in the identification of additional flaws, including:

It had almost no defensive systems.
If combat exhausted its fuel tank endurance, it had no backup system.

Refinements and new designs would be considered and built; unlike the Earth-Mars Alliance, the Belters would test many new designs in combat, as their distributed and often somewhat modular or ad-hoc production facilities often meant that a viable design for one facility, would be less viable for another.

The first three alternate designs to receive substantial testing were the Scorpion, which traded the forward two turrets for a power generator and a laser (somewhat immitating the Matterhorn design); the Crab, which traded firepower and endurance for armour; and the Mantis, which traded two gun turrets for missiles, and was intended to be a multi-role replacement for both the Timberwolf, and the Sabertooth.

SolarNet commentary:

"Earth/Orbit/HoulihanStation/OutaMyCabbagePatch called the Matterhorn a flying coffin. Far too many of both are burying our dead in the depths of the cold." - InnerBelt/AvalancheTribe/MayTheMusicNeverFadeStation/JazSoul

"Too many people are going to die too young to benefit from good anti-radiation medicine." - Earth/Orbit/HoulihanStation/OutaMyCabbagePatch

"I remember thinking the day before that things were going well, and we'd have our indepdendence with just a little more negotation. Then all hell broke loose." - InnerBelt/FuelTankerTribe/CybrisStation/TooSoberForThis

"Lost my legs ten years 'during' the war, thanks to rads. The mil gave me a purple heart for that, and back-dated it." - Mars/OlympusHighlands/Seacouver/TooManyShinyBits

"I remember the first time I took it flying. Flying is amazing. If you ever get the chance to, take it. Just wish I'd gotten my pilot's license for something other than The Hellish Necessity." - OuterBelt/RockRatTribe/DiggyMcDigfaceShip/AllISanityIsMyLost

"Was it really necessary?" - InnerBelt/FuelTankerTribe/CybrisStation/TooSoberForThis

"Flying coffin? More like a coffin-maker!" - InnerBelt/VoyagerTribe/GottaBeHereSomewhereShip/INeverMiss

"Sometimes, I'm terrified it was." - OuterBelt/RockRatTribe/DiggyMcDigfaceShip/AllISanityIsMyLost

"You ever feel like you should just shut up?" - InnerBelt/AvalancheTribe/MayTheMusicNeverFadeStation/JazSoul

Page [5/83] [Thread Closed]

Edit: Spot the Direwolf. ...The first Direwolf prototype is going to be named "Spot".

AlexanderHowl · 08-10-2020, 09:08 PM

An interesting design. I would suggest perhaps an elite variation in the form of the Dire Wolf. The Dire Wolf would replace the two forward VRF 2.5 cm medium batteries with two forward fixed 12cm major batteries (improving base damage fivefold from 3d+2 to 6dx3). Using proximity detonation, it would suffer a -3 to hit, meaning that it would be given to a more skilled crew than the Timberwold

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-10-2020, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

An interesting design. I would suggest perhaps an elite variation in the form of the Dire Wolf. The Dire Wolf would replace the two forward VRF 2.5 cm medium batteries with two forward fixed 12cm major batteries (improving damage fivefold from 3d+2 to 6dx3). Using proximity detonation, it would suffer a -3 to hit, meaning that it would be given to a more skilled crew than the Timberwold

That is a good idea, and I have been thinking that the next version would be called the "*Direwolf", but was unable to come up with a definite design for it.

* Distance from Earth has changed certain of the nomenclature constructions. In particular, modifier words tend to be combined with what they modify. So "redapple" and "greenapple" are both considered acceptable. This is because, as shorter communications are preferable, spaces between words tend to get dropped where they make sense.

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-10-2020, 10:19 PM

The Direwolf has been added. As always, I am a model of swift efficiency when remembering what to edit.

~~Just ignore that it still says Jovian Alliance on the first page...~~

Edit: Really, it's not much of a Jovian Alliance.

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-10-2020, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcarson

Inspiration art, http://3mpub.com/mccollum/images/cloudsat.jpg art for The Clouds of Saturn by Michael McCollum.

I completely forgot about your post, sorry.

I think I read that book! Also if it's the book I'm thinking of, it's what inspired the Jovian Landers (none of whom actually live on Jupiter).

Say, it isn't that bad! · 08-10-2020, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

You're off by a whole bunch of orders of magnitude. The radius of curvature of a charged particle in a magnetic field is mv/qB; the stuff you really have to care about is typically a couple GeV per unit charge (the 100 GeV particles exist but are rare enough to just ignore; also, they like have a charge of more than 1). Since m = e/c^2, an object at 5 GeV/electron charge has a mass of 5e9J/C or 5.5e-8kg/C, and has V on the order of 2.7e+8m/s; thus, r = 5.5e-8 * 2.7e8 / B or 15m/b, so to achieve a 100 meter radius of curvature you need a field strength of 0.15 Tesla. Which is certainly a significant field, but hardly impossible to manage.

Also, magnetic fields don't follow the inverse square law. They aren't even in all directions, are complex at short ranges, and approximate inverse cube at long ranges.

Ok, this medical study says that up to 8 Tesla is "fine." It does not, however, list a study duration. The minimum field strength listed as tested seems to be 1.5 Tesla. In addition, "Transient ECG artifacts were noted to increase with the field strength.":

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/jmri.10367

The World Health Organization gives limits of 200 milli-Tesla for "occupational exposure", with a "ceiling value" of 2 Tesla. A "...continuous exposure limit of 40 mT is given for the general public.":

https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publicat...acts/fs299/en/

The World Health Organization seems to find no definite causal link between low levels of exposure to electromagnetic fields and various diseases, but warns that high levels of electromagnetic fields can "...cause nerve and muscle stimulation and changes in nerve cell excitability in the central nervous system.":

https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publicat...acts/fs322/en/

Optionally, I could rule that, for this specific setting, that levels of electromagnetic fields below some value, such as 0.3 Tesla, do not cause any problem - Given that there doesn't seem to be a definite link. This would allow electromagnetic and electrostatic shielding for SM+15 and above stations and ships.

I am inclined to do so, for the following reason: mass shielding does not, except in the case of very large masses, eliminate exposure to cosmic rays, and thus makes long-term space habitation implicitly deleterious except in deeply buried settlements. An electromagnetic or electrostatic shield could completely (or effectively so) eliminate this danger, allowing inhabited stations that are not buried in large asteroids.

Alternately, all permanent habitats could be buried in large asteroids.

I am taking as given the argument that electromagnetic and electrostatic shielding is plausible at SM+15, as per Anthony's closing argument. If you wish to argue the plausibility or feasibility of electromagnetic or electrostatic shielding further, please make a thread for that specific purpose. :) The topic has been debated to my (current) satisfaction in this thread. Further discussion of electromagnetic or electrostatic shielding is welcome in this thread; just not on its feasibility. ;)

Edit: Note: The discussion is still open on the practicality of electromagnetic and electrostatic shielding in this thread.

AlexanderHowl · 08-11-2020, 12:46 AM

Given the low rate of radiation damage from GCR (1 rad/week), you could have Rapid Healing (Radiation Only, -60%) [2] as possibly a TL9 eugenic genetic modification (humans could be engineered to cause cell death to afflicted cells, allow nearby cells to replace them, and it would not require species modification). In the above case, the character would heal 10 rads per day of rest and would be the perfect mod for a space child.

08-05-2020, 08:37 AM	#71
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system One habitat would be for barge personnel/reserve carrier personnel while the second habitat would be for carrier services. Ideally, anyone who is scheduled to transfer to and from a carrier would wait in the barge rather than taking a spacecraft directly to the carrier. While they are not stealthy, carriers would probably want to keep a low profile during their patrols.

08-05-2020, 10:26 AM	#73
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system Pretty much, as a carrier with only one habitat has limited capabilities for long term operations, so you need something extra for normal operations.

08-10-2020, 08:24 PM	#74
Say, it isn't that bad! Join Date: Dec 2013	Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system Note: Updates to this thread have been moved to a more sane, slower, and more regular schedule. Expect one update Monday; any other updates will be as and when they happen. Note2: The Belter Timberwolf courtesy of AlexanderHowl; the formatting, critique, and commentary by me. TL 9, Fighter (patrol), SM+6 unstreamlined hull, 20 yards. Spacecraft Table Code: TL Spacecraft dST/HP Hnd/SR HT Move Lwt. Load SM Occ dDR Range Cost Timberwolf Patrol Fighter 30/30 0/4 11 2G/4.8mps 100t 3.4t +6 4 7 -- $4,850K Code: Front Hull System ($2,460) [1] Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 7, hardened) ($200K) [2] Tactical Comm/Sensor Array (3 workspaces, comm/sensory Level 6) ($1,000K) [3] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [4] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [5] Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K) [6] Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K) Code: Central Hull System ($1,570K) [1] Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 7, hardened) ($200K) [2] Hanger Bay (3t capacity, 3t launch rate) ($10K) [3] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [4] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [5] Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K) [6] Medium weapons battery (3 turrets, 2.5cm very rapid-fire gun, 8,400 shots) ($600K) [core] Habitat (1 bunkroom) ($100K) Code: Rear Hull System ($820K) [1] Advanced Metallic Laminate Armour (dDR 7, hardened) ($200K) [4] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [3] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [4] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [4] Fuel tank (5 tons of HEDM fuel, 0.5 mps) ($30K) [6] HEDM Chemical Rocket (2G acceleration) ($300K) [core] Control Room (2 control stations, Complexity 5 computer network, comm/sensory Level 4 (backup)) ($200K) The Timberwolf fighter was based on the idea of overwhelming firepower in overwhelming amounts. As such, while it could defeat any light craft it could range on, it was something of a "glass cannon", and had no ability to confront heavier craft, aside from picking off exposed systems - a task at which, it must be said, it was not incapable. The initial Belter anti-shipping fighter, however, was the Sabertooth. A later elite variant of the Timberwolf, the "Direwolf", replaced the six forward turrets with two fixed major batteries. These cannons enabled the Direwolf to be a direct threat to enemy warships at close range. Opponents of the Timberwolf design noted potential flaws, including: It could not survive its own armament for more than a brief contact. It had almost no defensive systems. After-action reports resulted in the confirmation of the following benefits: Its point-defence was sufficient against almost any missile fire. Its four very rapid fire turrets gave it a powerful punch against any close-range enemy, and even against exposed systems of heavier ships. After-action reports resulted in the identification of additional flaws, including: It had almost no defensive systems. If combat exhausted its fuel tank endurance, it had no backup system. Refinements and new designs would be considered and built; unlike the Earth-Mars Alliance, the Belters would test many new designs in combat, as their distributed and often somewhat modular or ad-hoc production facilities often meant that a viable design for one facility, would be less viable for another. The first three alternate designs to receive substantial testing were the Scorpion, which traded the forward two turrets for a power generator and a laser (somewhat immitating the Matterhorn design); the Crab, which traded firepower and endurance for armour; and the Mantis, which traded two gun turrets for missiles, and was intended to be a multi-role replacement for both the Timberwolf, and the Sabertooth. SolarNet commentary: "Earth/Orbit/HoulihanStation/OutaMyCabbagePatch called the Matterhorn a flying coffin. Far too many of both are burying our dead in the depths of the cold." - InnerBelt/AvalancheTribe/MayTheMusicNeverFadeStation/JazSoul "Too many people are going to die too young to benefit from good anti-radiation medicine." - Earth/Orbit/HoulihanStation/OutaMyCabbagePatch "I remember thinking the day before that things were going well, and we'd have our indepdendence with just a little more negotation. Then all hell broke loose." - InnerBelt/FuelTankerTribe/CybrisStation/TooSoberForThis "Lost my legs ten years 'during' the war, thanks to rads. The mil gave me a purple heart for that, and back-dated it." - Mars/OlympusHighlands/Seacouver/TooManyShinyBits "I remember the first time I took it flying. Flying is amazing. If you ever get the chance to, take it. Just wish I'd gotten my pilot's license for something other than The Hellish Necessity." - OuterBelt/RockRatTribe/DiggyMcDigfaceShip/AllISanityIsMyLost "Was it really necessary?" - InnerBelt/FuelTankerTribe/CybrisStation/TooSoberForThis "Flying coffin? More like a coffin-maker!" - InnerBelt/VoyagerTribe/GottaBeHereSomewhereShip/INeverMiss "Sometimes, I'm terrified it was." - OuterBelt/RockRatTribe/DiggyMcDigfaceShip/AllISanityIsMyLost "You ever feel like you should just shut up?" - InnerBelt/AvalancheTribe/MayTheMusicNeverFadeStation/JazSoul Page [5/83] [Thread Closed] Edit: Spot the Direwolf. ...The first Direwolf prototype is going to be named "Spot". Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 08-10-2020 at 10:18 PM.

08-10-2020, 09:08 PM	#75
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system An interesting design. I would suggest perhaps an elite variation in the form of the Dire Wolf. The Dire Wolf would replace the two forward VRF 2.5 cm medium batteries with two forward fixed 12cm major batteries (improving base damage fivefold from 3d+2 to 6dx3). Using proximity detonation, it would suffer a -3 to hit, meaning that it would be given to a more skilled crew than the Timberwold Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 08-10-2020 at 09:14 PM.

08-10-2020, 10:19 PM	#77
Say, it isn't that bad! Join Date: Dec 2013	Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system The Direwolf has been added. As always, I am a model of swift efficiency when remembering what to edit. ~~Just ignore that it still says Jovian Alliance on the first page...~~ Edit: Really, it's not much of a Jovian Alliance. Last edited by Say, it isn't that bad!; 08-10-2020 at 11:08 PM.

08-11-2020, 12:46 AM	#80
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: In which I post about a TL9 solar system Given the low rate of radiation damage from GCR (1 rad/week), you could have Rapid Healing (Radiation Only, -60%) [2] as possibly a TL9 eugenic genetic modification (humans could be engineered to cause cell death to afflicted cells, allow nearby cells to replace them, and it would not require species modification). In the above case, the character would heal 10 rads per day of rest and would be the perfect mod for a space child.